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"...Western society will either die out or be Islamised" Watch

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    THERE IS NO PLACE FOR ISLAM IN CIVILIZED WESTERN SOCIETY.

    europe is the great continent it is today BECAUSE we are not muslims.

    Look how many muslims cling to the underside of trucks like cockroaches trying to get into our secular society.

    Look how many muslims are absolutely desperate for visas and british citizenship.

    why do you think they want to come here ?
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    Look how many muslims are absolutely desperate for visas and british citizenship.

    why do you think they want to come here ?
    Yes it has always struck me that people do not question more why there is such a large permanent cue in Calais to come to the UK. Surely, once in Western Europe immigrants from third world countries would be content to be in any part of Western Europe, apparently not so; word has got out that the UK is a bit of an easy ride...
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    (Original post by crusading)
    THERE IS NO PLACE FOR ISLAM IN CIVILIZED WESTERN SOCIETY.

    europe is the great continent it is today BECAUSE we are not muslims.

    Look how many muslims cling to the underside of trucks like cockroaches trying to get into our secular society.

    Look how many muslims are absolutely desperate for visas and british citizenship.

    why do you think they want to come here ?
    Economic self-interest. Not that that is such a bad thing. You can't blame someone for wanting the best for their family, can you?
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Economic self-interest. Not that that is such a bad thing. You can't blame someone for wanting the best for their family, can you?
    unfortunately for us. My mother was at glasgow airport when it was bombed by some muslim immigrant. That terrorist scumbag came to Britain from Iraq for a 'better life' and then the horrible ******* fills his car with bottles of petrol and thousands of nails and bombs us.

    It pleasures me to know that he gets a good kicking every night when he is in Barlinnie prison. And I know this for a fact because my uncle is a prison officer in Barlinnie.
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    (Original post by Flying Cookie)
    My God, this is not the issue! Discrimination is not about people supporting their communities, having certain friends, etc.

    Discrimination is based on the desctructive aspect of things, and not the constructive one. Discrimination is about people getting killed/mistreated/hated/opressed for the sake of it, unnecessarily and destructively. It's not about fighting for your country, protecting your minority, etc.

    Of course it's perfectly natural for someone to offend/kill/opress someone else in order to save themselves/their family/friends, but that's not discrimination - discrimination is strictly limited to the circumstances which have no connection whatsoever to an intrinsically greater good for the opressor, but rather an implicit smaller, perceived good caused by a pointlesss, destructive violence towards the victim.

    Punching a black guy for slapping you is not racist. Punching a black guy for being black is. That's what discrimination is, a behaviour which does no good, but bad. Stating that such behaviour is good is simply illogical.
    The problem is your definition of discrimination does not work;

    'supporting your community' and 'having certain friends' clearly does involve discrimination, based on race.

    To take an obvious example, a mixed race relationship. The parents of one individual may object to their partner based on grounds of their race alone, this is discrimination, clearly. The parents want their child to have a partner from 'within their community' - because in their view they are supporting the community.

    Your view contradicts itself.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    The problem is your definition of discrimination does not work;

    'supporting your community' and 'having certain friends' clearly does involve discrimination, based on race.

    To take an obvious example, a mixed race relationship. The parents of one individual may object to their partner based on grounds of their race alone, this is discrimination, clearly. The parents want their child to have a partner from 'within their community' - because in their view they are supporting the community.

    Your view contradicts itself.
    I feel we're never going to settle this debate.

    Haha, I'll give it another try anyway.

    The word discrimination means, in simple terms, making a difference based on some factor.

    If I make a white friend, I'm making a white friend because I like something about them, NOT because I don't like something about the other races.

    However, if I ignore a black person who has the same personal qualities as my white friend, that is discrimination because I am making a difference based on something the person cannot control about himself and I do not base my friendships on otherwise.

    Discrimination can be constructive and destructive, but usually the constructive type invariably causes a negative reaction, so we end up with only one type of discrimination: desctructive discrimination. Example: if I discriminate positively and have a lot of black friends (just based on their race), then I am implicitly discriminating negatively against white people because I treat them according to race, trait which is irrelevant to the process of friendship making.

    Plus, when I said "supporting your community", who said the community is the same race as the person involved?
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    (Original post by crusading)
    unfortunately for us. My mother was at glasgow airport when it was bombed by some muslim immigrant. That terrorist scumbag came to Britain from Iraq for a 'better life' and then the horrible ******* fills his car with bottles of petrol and thousands of nails and bombs us.

    It pleasures me to know that he gets a good kicking every night when he is in Barlinnie prison. And I know this for a fact because my uncle is a prison officer in Barlinnie.

    Funny you mention that because it is people like you who incite muslim immigrants to hate our society. I heard the muslim boys were one of the biggest gangs in UK jails and they had to seperate some terrorist suspects because they were so aggresively running the jails they were in.

    So you are wrong.
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    (Original post by Harris)
    The world will go 1 of three ways.

    1. European Secularism

    2. Judaio-Christian off a North American model

    3. Islam

    Judeo-Christian is a made up term which means nothing.
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    (Original post by chingquey)
    Have some shame calling other muslims hypocrites. Look at yourself first, you who claims to be muslims but at the same time you deride those who call for the muslims to act as the Prophet (pbuh) and his companions did.
    No-one is perfect and I am not claiming to be latter, but an indivdual claiming to be a Muslim and then not reputing their title by inciting hate towards other fellow Muslims and causing division in Islam, deserves to be called a hypocrite.

    If you support the actions taken by "muslims" such as those affiliated with the Taliban , and wish to have the concept of Islam which they show to world to be that of which us peace loving muslims must be slandered by, then please say so.

    I am a muslim who reads 5 times, follows as many sunnat and try to be as obediant as I can to my parents. Again, I'm not perfect, but I know can identify the aspects of what is good, and what is bad. The margin seperating the two is not thin, so I expect you to be able to empathise with me.
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    (Original post by TOSCS)
    I could see it happening in England (though I seriously doubt it will) because English people do not retain much cultural pride or identity.
    They used to but mass immigration and commuters have reduced and changed beliefs, especially in large cities. That's why London has no real local 'pride' but Liverpool and Durham still do. One way to help change that is to turn the country federal with counties (not regions) being promoted and given more power so we're not a microcosm from central power.

    Besides, informal segregation based on religion and race at large cities do not help with the matter.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Judeo-Christian is a made up term which means nothing.
    Not true. Valid theological term. Meaningless only in this context.
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    I'm far more concerned about the rise of Fascism in the Western World than that of Islamism, look at how easily the Western governments were able to dictate to their citizens which civil liberties they will be allowed to keep in the midst of the so called War on Terror. What we have here is a crusade against so called foreign values, a crusade of ignorance, paranoia and xenophobia, the aptly named 'Crusading' poster above symbolises this attitude perfectly. Let me be clear no one surely who is asking for more tolerance for Muslim citizens in our countries is keen on a loss of Western liberal values, but what we are saying is that in crusading against the threat of Islam and pre-empting an attack we are throwing away our own liberal values. Furthermore the rise of radical extremism in Muslims is far more complex than a matter of religion, it is politics, sociology and ideology, people like Obama can see this, he knows one cannot simply build walls to block out Islam.
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    n the next 18 years, society (i.e. Western society) should be addressing the issues of faith (whether, which and why), sex (whether, when and why not), food (what, why and where from), and children (whose and how many). If those questions are not addressed Western society will either die out or be Islamised: and which of those two fates is worse is also an issue that we should be addressing.
    It might be useful to consider Roger Scrutons original remarks, as the thread seems to have strayed somewhat...

    Faith - whether/which/why. Again Western society has to all intents and purposes lost its faith. And therefore its cultural foundation, for history teaches shows that any successful civilization has been bound by a common religion. Post enlightenment high art carried the baton for religion - but in the 21st century high art seems to be expiring its final breaths, giving way to a religious vacuum.

    Sex - In a post sexual revolution era, sex has been purged of any notion of sanctity it once had. Instead the ideas of the old morality which taught the virtue in restraint and virginity, these are now considered nothing more then an impediment to the pursuit of sexual pleasure . A life of sexual pleasure at best, but perhaps not joy? The distinction is subtle but important. We live an age where we might refrain from condemning the promiscuous, for it is their 'right' to a life of sexual pleasure. We should perhaps stop to consider the wider effect on society of regarding people as substitutable means to sexual pleasure, as opposed to 'ends in themselves', as religion teaches.

    Food - Perhaps a slightly more obtuse point to make. None the less it is no doubt a comment on the culture of mass-produced junk food and decline in the idea of meal-time (replaced by tv dinners) and proper cooking as a corner-stone of family and cultural life. Our increasingly indifferent attitude to where our food comes from, and when/with whom/and what we eat undoubtedly has a greater effect on our lives society and environment then we might care to imagine. It is in this context that we can appreciate rationale behind dietary requirements and fasting adhered to by some faiths.

    Children - A critical point - the declining birth rates in the western world are perhaps symptomatic of a society that no longer makes the effort to reproduce itself or makes the effort to pass on its store of knowledge. The fact that the Western world is now populated with immigrant communities who do this better then us demands that we either address this issue, or as Roger Scruton says; face dying out or Islamisation.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Faith - whether/which/why. Again Western society has to all intents and purposes lost its faith. And therefore its cultural foundation, for history teaches shows that any successful civilization has been bound by a common religion. Post enlightenment high art carried the baton for religion - but in the 21st century high art seems to be expiring its final breaths, giving way to a religious vacuum.
    Yes there is a religous vacumn in the art world, but that is by no means a bad thing. High art was in no way superior to any other form of art as the gentleman is clearly immplying.

    Sex - In a post sexual revolution era, sex has been purged of any notion of sanctity it once had. Instead the ideas of the old morality which taught the virtue in restraint and virginity, these are now considered nothing more then an impediment to the pursuit of sexual pleasure . A life of sexual pleasure at best, but perhaps not joy? The distinction is subtle but important. We live an age where we might refrain from condemning the promiscuous, for it is their 'right' to a life of sexual pleasure. We should perhaps stop to consider the wider effect on society of regarding people as substitutable means to sexual pleasure, as opposed to 'ends in themselves', as religion teaches.

    All religion did was associate sex and sexual pleasure with guilt. This era of restraint and virginity was in no way traditional, it was merely a rejection of Roman promiscuity and excess, when christianity became dominant most things Roman were rejected on he basis of 'Babylonian disgust' and disdain for worldy pleasure. This is clear when comparing hellenistic art and poetry to that of the early christian kingdoms.

    Food - Perhaps a slightly more obtuse point to make. None the less it is no doubt a comment on the culture of mass-produced junk food and decline in the idea of meal-time (replaced by tv dinners) and proper cooking as a corner-stone of family and cultural life. Our increasingly indifferent attitude to where our food comes from, and when/with whom/and what we eat undoubtedly has a greater effect on our lives society and environment then we might care to imagine. It is in this context that we can appreciate rationale behind dietary requirements and fasting adhered to by some faiths.
    I agree with this, but not the religous connotations. Socially the idea of meal-time is an impportant one that has been constant in pretty much every civilisation. To attribute this to faith alone however is an excersize in pretentiousness.

    Children - A critical point - the declining birth rates in the western world are perhaps symptomatic of a society that no longer makes the effort to reproduce itself or makes the effort to pass on its store of knowledge. The fact that the Western world is now populated with immigrant communities who do this better then us demands that we either address this issue, or as Roger Scruton says; face dying out or Islamisation.
    This has as more to do with the ageing or greying of Europe and the west than it does with the decline of religous family values.High life expectany and equal rights for men and women allows women to purue a career like any man would be able to. The reason why the Islamic world has higher birth rates is that women have less rights and are considered first and foremost to be homemakers. Is this gentleman suggesting that unless we take away the rights of females and force them to be second class citizens again, we will be Islamitized??
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    (Original post by ∑ Я ĩ k ė s ħ ξ)
    Or maybe we just havent had radical christian/hindu/jewish jihadists yet
    Ahem, you have heard of the Crusades, the Reconquista, the Spanish Inquisition have you not. In aiddition I believe (yet may not be correct) that there are extremists demanding the state of Hindustahn whilst in the past, there have been far right wing Jews who believed it to be God's will to kill Israeli Arabs
 
 
 
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