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"...Western society will either die out or be Islamised" Watch

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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    It also orders its followers to "take not the Jews and Christians for your friends", and to "slaughter the infidels".
    Read it in context, don't just pick a tiny bit out to further your agenda. In context, it refers to the Christians and Jews of which were in conflict (or something, can't remember the exact passage) in the prior verse.
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    We should ban mini skirts then. It's the product of a sex-crazed soceity. It's a "socio-cultural item" and we can't distinguish between people pressured into wearing one or if it is a personal choice.
    Yet it's not a result of misogynistic repression is it? :rolleyes: It's actually the greatest symbol of female liberation.
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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    Imagine I as a Muslim had said that you would have had a field day however when you say such things about what I believe it is acceptable.



    You are entitled to your own opinion though at least attempt to be respectful. I mean it's common decency.
    He has a point. Islam is a cultural poison undermining the progress the west has made for our society. Muslims are an active part of this process. Every Muslim woman that dons a veil, goes and marries a man and then have children who they send to a mosque to be taught Islamic culture is an attack on British culture.

    I would of thought Muslims would have the decency to be honest in that Sharia law is incompatible with western values regarding liberty, freedoms and punishments. Every Muslim undermines the rights of British (ethnic) to live in the society of their nation.

    We don't live in a dictatorship - multiculturalism is incompatible with democracy and the right to national self-determination of peoples.

    Necessary Benevolent is right in that Muslims as a group as a poison against British culture - but also every Muslim is as well. That doesn't mean Muslims are bad people - but their presence is an attack on British culture. It is the height of intellectual dishonesty to claim otherwise.
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    (Original post by sandeep90)
    Burqas are also in my opinion a form of male dominance in Islamic culture. Why are only women required to wear them? Why not men? If women should have to dress 'modestly' then why shouldn't men?
    Uhhh, men do have to dress modestly, you must cover from your navel to below the knees. Then it is highly recommended to wear a full sleave shirt and finally it is recommended to wear a hat.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    It also orders its followers to "take not the Jews and Christians for your friends", and to "slaughter the infidels".
    All religious texts advocate abhorrent things, and all religious fundamentalists act in abhorrent ways. Singling out Islam is either a matter of race, or xenophobia. Pick whichever applies most to you.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    It also orders its followers to "take not the Jews and Christians for your friends", and to "slaughter the infidels".
    This at the time where Muslims faced persecution at it's peak. As a Muslim i was always taught to respect others religion.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Yet it's not a result of misogynistic repression is it? :rolleyes: It's actually the greatest symbol of female liberation.
    No, it's not. It's advent in 1964 confirmed the British women's place as a sex symbol, a sexually objectified, and oppressed, figure and little more than that. It didn't "liberate" them at all.

    Don't pick 'n choose.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    It also orders its followers to "take not the Jews and Christians for your friends", and to "slaughter the infidels".
    What are you, a fool? Who taught you this? Such a common misonception about Islam, people like you are poision to the West, not Islam.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Banning the burkha is perfectly justified. First, because, regardless of "choice" it's a product of a repressive patriarchal Middle Eastern society (mainly Saudi Arabia) where women are treated like dirt; second, because it's a socio-cultural item, not a religious one; and third, because it's impossible to distinguish between those who've been forced to wear the burkha, and those who've chosen to wear the burkha (thus, the risk is too great).
    You make a valid point about Saudi Arabia it forces a lot of things on people. However I fail to see how that relates to banning the Burkha in the 'western world'

    Regardless of your opinions on where the burkha originates from (many differing opinions on the subject) what we are actually talking about is today. Modern society. If a woman in the Western world chooses to wear something then freedom dictates she should be allowed too.

    You say it is not a religious item and that is true. It is optional to wear it in Islam and therefore it then becomes an individual’s personal choice whether to wear that piece of clothing. As strange a concept this may seem to some but people actually do wear it out of choice NOT force.

    When you say 'because it's impossible to distinguish between those who've been forced to wear the burkha, and those who've chosen to wear the burkha and thus the risk is too great' makes me wonder how many women you actually think are forced to don the burkha. As a Muslim living in an area with quite a few Muslims I know of no one that has been forced to wear the garment.
    It would be ignorant of me to say no Muslim girl has ever been forced to wear the burkha however they are a very sparse minority especially in modern Britain.

    How about instead of banning the burkha educate people in a way that they would not consider it?
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    (Original post by smalltownboy)
    All religious texts advocate abhorrent things, and all religious fundamentalists act in abhorrent ways. Singling out Islam is either a matter of race, or xenophobia. Pick whichever applies most to you.
    Indeed. I didn't begin the quoting bout. The previous poster began with his own critique and a counterbalance was required. Nevertheless, I would argue the most pertinent point. That is, obviously, that many religious fundamentalists up and down the country do take these verses literally. Just see that documentary Undercover Mosque to verify.
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    Uhhh, men do have to dress modestly, you must cover from your navel to below the knees. Then it is highly recommended to wear a full sleave shirt and finally it is recommended to wear a hat.
    But why not to wear a burqa and cover yourself fully except for your eyes? Surely if men & women were equal in Islamic culture they would both be required to wear the burqa.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Islam is a poison in Western society.
    I'd use this to answer any question in this thread.

    (Original post by neillya1)

    If I went to stay in say, Iran, I'd be killed for being homosexual, so why should I have to follow all their customs and be called racist for not doing so, when if I went to live in their society, I'd be killed.
    It's the race card that gets pulled out all too often in the UK and everyone is all too willing to lay their cards down in order to accomadate Muslims in order to not be seen as a racist. I see Mosques popping up in the UK but where's the churches going up in the Middle East?
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    (Original post by blank_blank)
    by the first line, i was stating that i was a muslin, and then my opinion on this topic..lol.

    and 'im not that religious' cz i believe in god and i do follow the rules, but comparing myself to others im not that religious, because some people take it much more seriously and stick to it better than i do, and i still stick to the rules more or less i just don't let religion get in the way of my life i blend it in with my life..if you get me.

    and the whole point of extremists is that some follow the religion in the wrong way and interpret things wrong, and other extremists are naive because they are more influenced by their own culture than by the religion and this culture tends to be very old fashioned and different to the modern society that we live in, therefore making them naive..therfore opinions are very different since even though yes we're all muslims, that's just the big main category, you then branch out into like culture, how you wer raised into that religion etc that's why your opinions would differ, just like any other religion..i'm pretty sure not all jews and christians have the same opinion on things.

    woops..a bit of a long reply! lol
    Okay So let me understand you a little bit more.

    You are Muslim, you follow the rules. But you don't follow them as much as other people and don't stick at it. Then surely you're not Muslim? As each Muslim should value Islam the same - there shouldn't be a level of 'Muslim'?

    You then mention that the extremists (Al Qaeda/Taliban) operate the way they do, because they take Islam too seriously (in other words following the religion). So are you telling me that Islam is not a religion of peace, for those that follow it correctly commit atrocities? or simply that those that follow it have a warped view of Islam and the Quran? or that Al Qaeda/Taliban don't operate in the name of Islam (like they say), but more so in the name of their culture?

    If it's the last two, why aren't you as a Muslim defending your religion - as it's clear then that Al Qaeda/Taliban don't operate on the basis of Islam and therefore not on behalf of you (as a Muslim?)
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    It also orders its followers to "take not the Jews and Christians for your friends", and to "slaughter the infidels".
    You my friend have not even have not even read the Qur'an I can tell, if you had, you would not take the verses out from context, this was ordered when the Christians and the Jews betrayed the Muslims when they broke the treaty, and regarding killing the non-believers this was in the battlefield.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Indeed. I didn't begin the quoting bout. The previous poster began with his own critique and a counterbalance was required. Nevertheless, I would argue the most pertinent point. That is, obviously, that many religious fundamentalists up and down the country do take these verses literally. Just see that documentary Undercover Mosque to verify.

    as a muslim, i would say these fundamentalists are extremists who havn't adapted to modern society, and i think what they are saying and doin is wrong since they are giving people the wrong impression.
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    (Original post by sandeep90)
    Well I think in some Muslim families as in most other religions, religious traditions can be forced onto children and in today's world I believe that not allowing a woman to express herself through her own clothing is a point. To make all women look the same by getting them to wear burqas takes away their own ability integrate and it forces them to stand out more in Western society.

    Burqas are also in my opinion a form of male dominance in Islamic culture. Why are only women required to wear them? Why not men? If women should have to dress 'modestly' then why shouldn't men?
    Firstly your point assumes that the woman has had the burkha forced on her. What if through her own personal choice she has decided to express her self through that peice of clothing.

    Secondly it is actually only a very small minority of british muslims that wear the burkha. I fail to see the issue with these women who wear the burkha looking the same. Again I also see how it takes away their ability to integrate. From what people have said it seems to be more the stereotypes about these women that stop people from integrating with them rather then vice versa.

    Women are NOT required to wear them. They can choose whether they want to or not.

    Men have their own dress code like women do.
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    (Original post by Liverpool F.C.™)
    You my friend have not even have not even read the Qur'an I can tell, if you had, you would not take the verses out from context, this was ordered when the Christians and the Jews betrayed the Muslims when they broke the treaty, and regarding killing the non-believers this was in the battlefield.
    If you read my previous post you'd see my point wasn't to pick out any abhorrent verses. More that I was laying down the point that extremists pick out these verses in order to justify their violent, anti-democratic, homophobic, racist vitriol.
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    (Original post by TheJudge)
    Oh wait, we are only angry when its muslims. The muslims who immigrated here twenty years ago and have since been in decline.
    Yep.

    Were only angry when its the muslims bomb trains and blow up planes.

    Oh wait! The Roman Catholics dont do this (and if they did they wouldn't use their religion as a scapegoat if they did)

    Also, I have nothing against 96% of the Muslims, who are normal people who respect other people. The reason i am writing this comment is due to a large number of mosques teaching hate against the west IN the UK:eek: Cheeky Ba5tards:eek3: They should be hanged.
    Abu Hamza was a notable example, but there are many more, not as extreme, but just as dangerous.

    For the other 96% who believe in respect of others (especially a country which has taken them and their families in from the middle east)
    i say youre welcome here
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Today's moderate Roman Catholicism is nowhere near as fundamentalist as today's "moderate" Islam.
    So..because of the few individuals who claim to be practising muslims, and in fact do the opposite in which the Quran preaches, you have the audacity to incinuate that Islam is a fundamentalist religion. This ignorance really is silly.
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    Really how?

    Surely banning the Burkha demeans and degrades women stopping them from being free to choose what they want to wear?

    I fail to see how a piece of cloth demeans a woman on any individual for that such matter.
    It's an interesting point, and a continuous issue.

    The way I see it is this:

    The argument Muslims make for wearing the burka in Western countries is entirely based on our (English) principles of personnel freedom of the John Stuart Mill variety - indeed principles which are in essence diametrically opposed to the sprit in which women wear the burka in Islamic countries.

    We find the burka in England objectionable because it makes women invisible, when we speak to a women who wears the burka - we do not see them as an embodied person - therefore in our eyes we are communicating to them in a way which is only half human - we are not communicating through the various 'windows to the soul' which we take for granted in our day to day communication, the eyes, mouth facial expressions, hand gestures, all integral to the way in which we communicate in our culture.

    Moreover the degree individual expression which Christian democracies make possible is entirely absent in a women who wears the burka, they are simply non-entities. In our post-sexual revolution times the modesty which used to be present in our society has ebbed away, where once mini-skirts used to be frowned upon, rarely does anyone turn a blind eye now. The burka is as far as I can see this idea of female modesty taken to the nth degree.

    But perhaps the greatest problem Westerners have with the burka is that it is for the individual who wears it is a flagrant, even hostile rejection of the society in which they live, for the clothes we choose to wear have a deep social significance, they say things about us how we wish to be perceived by others. And in that sense the burka is the ultimate rejection of society, and in the eyes of wider society the woman who wears it appear as an interloper.
 
 
 
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