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    This thread has left me with an annoying desire to know what schools the OP and these students went to. I know it would just cause a big row between the people defending and attacking the schools, but still, those arguments are usually quite interesting

    Go on OP, tell us where you're based...
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    could be imperial and st george's at st peter's hospital. and imperial does path exam in 5th year, but don't know much about georges.

    although i know someone who was at imperial and said when she was at st peter's, george's were all quite good knowledge wise.

    but this is a good post. i've heard that imperial are the few schools who do paces instead of osces for final year exams, and it can be a lot harder, as there is no set mark scheme. i don't know exactly how osces work, but for paces you take the whole history, examination, ask for investigations and set the management plan for a real patient, so you could argue that final year exams at imperial could be harder.

    also, i can't remember if this was from a paper or not, but i heard that those graduates from 'good, hard core' unis find starting FY1/2 a lot easier and less of an educational shock than those who are from other less rigorous unis, but those from the second group have a steep learning curve and there is generally no discrepancy by the time st/sho starts... so if that is true, by the time st starts, you'll all be the same level anyway but just worked harder at different times over the years...

    but then you could also get into the whole argument about is it far that mtas academic ranking is just within schools and a student at the bottom at one school, could have been top at another school......arghh
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    Could have been St. Andrews, couldn't it? Not that I'm a medic, I just like lurking in your sub-forum. :p:
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    (Original post by foxo)
    Could have been St. Andrews, couldn't it? Not that I'm a medic, I just like lurking in your sub-forum. :p:
    Yes, yes it could...

    However there are very many places the other lot could have been from on that note.
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    Nobody's been correct yet about which two it is, hehe, but both of the medical schools have been guessed separately, on the first page.

    Anyway, I didn't mention the schools because then it moves from being an interesting point into being a ****ging match. If someone had said the same about my university specifically then I would jump on the thread to defend it - if however they insulted the more scientific, more traditional medical schools generally, I wouldn't feel so defensive.

    Interestingly, I have seen a fair discrepency also on my elective, between my medical school and a pretty old (over 150 years) medical school's students. They were all bright cookies, you could tell they were sharp and switched on, but they were asked by their attachment doctor every day what Horner's syndrome was, not only did they not know, but they didn't bother finding out, and had to go through the embarrassing drudgery of being asked and frowned at every day. It's perculiar to me that anyone in their final year would not know what Horner's syndrome is, BUT this could be the part of me that has just come out of a set of rather strenuous exams, and is being a bit unbalanced! Furthermore, a point that has been risen; these guys may learn this sort of stuff in their last year.

    Regardless, though - I am just saying it is interesting in the discrepencies between what knowledge is classed as essential - am sure these students will make just as good doctors as those from my school - if they don't know what Horner's syndrome is NOW, then they will soon after working, anyway, so I guess no harm lost.

    My point is that I think a lot of consultants, having been taught on old traditional courses, EXPECT the students to know some of these things (regardless whether one argues whether they should or shouldn't), and don't realise it's not their fault if they don't. These discrepencies in expectations I believe make a bit of a lasting impression on the doctors, which is unfortunate, and it's probably no identifier of ability.

    Anyway, I'm glad this thread has been so civil, I was a bit worried I'd be told off for trolling!
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    (Original post by Sebastian Flight)
    Nobody's been correct yet about which two it is, hehe, but both of the medical schools have been guessed separately, on the first page.

    Anyway, I didn't mention the schools because then it moves from being an interesting point into being a ****ging match. If someone had said the same about my university specifically then I would jump on the thread to defend it - if however they insulted the more scientific, more traditional medical schools generally, I wouldn't feel so defensive.

    Interestingly, I have seen a fair discrepency also on my elective, between my medical school and a pretty old (over 150 years) medical school's students. They were all bright cookies, you could tell they were sharp and switched on, but they were asked by their attachment doctor every day what Horner's syndrome was, not only did they not know, but they didn't bother finding out, and had to go through the embarrassing drudgery of being asked and frowned at every day. It's perculiar to me that anyone in their final year would not know what Horner's syndrome is, BUT this could be the part of me that has just come out of a set of rather strenuous exams, and is being a bit unbalanced! Furthermore, a point that has been risen; these guys may learn this sort of stuff in their last year.

    Regardless, though - I am just saying it is interesting in the discrepencies between what knowledge is classed as essential - am sure these students will make just as good doctors as those from my school - if they don't know what Horner's syndrome is NOW, then they will soon after working, anyway, so I guess no harm lost.

    My point is that I think a lot of consultants, having been taught on old traditional courses, EXPECT the students to know some of these things (regardless whether one argues whether they should or shouldn't), and don't realise it's not their fault if they don't. These discrepencies in expectations I believe make a bit of a lasting impression on the doctors, which is unfortunate, and it's probably no identifier of ability.

    Anyway, I'm glad this thread has been so civil, I was a bit worried I'd be told off for trolling!
    I think you either go to UCL or Cambridge. Either way, I suspect we were both taught Horner's syndrome half way through our first year. It is extremely scary that some medical students don't even know it, and no we're not even talking about obscurities about the link between transcriptional dysregulation of TrkA and spinocerebellar ataxia type 17...
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    Well the compulsory intercalation med schools that increase the length of year of the course are Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, Imperial and UCL. Of those, UCL don't have separate path exams, so that rules it out.
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    (Original post by Comp_Genius)
    I think you either go to UCL or Cambridge. Either way, I suspect we were both taught Horner's syndrome half way through our first year. It is extremely scary that some medical students don't even know it, and no we're not even talking about obscurities about the link between transcriptional dysregulation of TrkA and spinocerebellar ataxia type 17...
    I think it depends on which areas of detail 'your' medical school delves into, I think its also a matter of personal motivation. Especially with the minutiae of the scientific detail; an example would be our embryology lectures, mostly very good, but some people do find them a bit detailed. Fascinating as it is (genuinely) the minutiae of Hox, Pax et al, especially when alot of it is undergoing research at a furious pace does not lend itself to great effort on the part of some fresher medical students. Personally I think the detail should be included (and it is) for scientific interest regardless of how many people fall asleep, but it must be aknowledged that with rapidly expanding scientific frountiers and (as can be seen some the numbers of textbooks on Spencer's list in another thread) the vast amount of knowledge medical students are expeted to imbibe, some bits will inevitably be sacrificed.

    Peraonally one of the great things about a traditional course is the scientific detail and the rigour. Yes, that might not be so brilliant when slogging through the nicities of MAPKKK/memorising amino acid properties, or the intricacies of matabolism at 3 am in the morning and you realise you have a tutorial tomorrow and you know not nearly as much as you should, but in defense of scientific detail - it allows you to reason forwards and backwards from things (yes theres always a story regarding some small detail etc) that you know. However obscure, I'd rather know, or at least be given the opportunity to know, I can always forget it later.
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    I agree with you on the scientific reasoning Wangers, especially in Pharmacology. For example, its patently obvious why you wouldn't use a beta-blocker and salbutamol if you understand how they work. The other side of the coin is balancing the ideas of specialists who want to create little versions of themselves with massively detailed teaching and medical students who do have a limit on the useful knowledge they can take in over their year. Above a certain point, you stop understanding and just keep stuffing it in and that's of no use at all. Finding that balance is the really tricky bit though, because there's no right answer.
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    I think you just got to meet 4 duff students. I'm still at school and I can name three different types of brain tumour solely from watching tv medical dramas.

    PS I think its Cambridge / UEA
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    Very interesting thread and a good read too,even

    though i have never really been drawn in to the

    medical field.
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    I've come across a certain amount of snobbery towards my medical school, though I think it's more due to stereotypes than outright snobbery. Some doctors have been extremely rude about our course and spend time talking about it's downfalls rather than teaching us as they were supposed to. Others have been very impressed by our knowledge as they consider us people who could offer patients a pillow and a cup of tea but know no science (maybe that's because they have low expectations :p:). We do come across consultants who expect us to know things we haven't yet been taught, mainly because they think that because we're doing hospital placements and have already done all the preclinical stuff. I personally carry a notebook with me and write down anything I don't know/understand to read around later.

    To the person who suggested UEA as being the other medical school - I doubt it as UEA students study haematology in 2nd year and learn how to read ECGs during this year as well (being tested in them quite often in the end of year OSCEs).

    The thing to remember I think is that each medical school will contain a wide range of different students with different attitudes to work. Just within my PBL group this year there was a wide range of attitudes, from the people who turned up to no lectures or seminars, handed in shoddy work to the group and had a fairly low level of knowledge to those who were incredibly well organised, always where they were supposed to be and produced a high standard of work (and of course all the variants in between). It's the first group that are more likely to stick in people's minds for the wrong reason and could be the sort of people that Sebastian Flight met, where others in the medical school might be more like the 2nd group.

    This is of course all just my own thoughts on the matter based on my own experiences and it's entirely possible there isn't quite the range of attitudes in other medical schools as I've seen at my own.
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    I still believe that once you're at medical school, the rest is largely up to you and how much effort you put in... and that determines how good a doctor you'll make, as subjective as that is, at the other end. You can do as well as you want anywhere if you put the effort in, though it might be easier some places than others depending on what suits you as a person.

    As for people asking which medical school this is, well, I wouldn't want to know personally. It's not good to stereotype an entire medical school on the basis of 4 students.
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    (Original post by Toiletpaper8)
    I still believe that once you're at medical school, the rest is largely up to you and how much effort you put in... and that determines how good a doctor you'll make, as subjective as that is, at the other end. You can do as well as you want anywhere if you put the effort in, though it might be easier some places than others depending on what suits you as a person.
    This. Medical school isn't just having a great big knowledge bolus, its keeping up a good, constant work rate and that's really up to yourself.
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    (Original post by Huw Davies)
    the Leicester guys when I was there were mostly quite switched on (hopefully they'd say the same about us!).
    Woo :woo:
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    True, but the baseline level of how good you are despite your laziness might be higher or lower depending on which university you go to.

    I feel quite happy to be in a traditional course tbh, and would hate being in a PBL course, but horses for courses eh?

    I know there will be students on PBL courses far better and worse than me.
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    (Original post by Medic400)
    As a peninsula student I had a placement with a Bristol student at a GP surgery, and she didn't know nearly as much as me, but im not going to go on about how Bristol isn't as good.

    Also, i dont understand why the newer medical schools are always considered worse just because they are new, the way it was assumed above that it was HYMS even though its nowhere near cambridge. At the end of the day everyone favours their own medical school, but we only know about the schools we go to, I dont have a clue what the course is like at anywhere except peninsula, so I would never say anywhere else is better or worse.

    Snobbery probably will go on, but I feel that you will have to stand out as an individual wherever you go, and it is interviews and application forms that will get you jobs, not where you went to medical school - probably. Anyone choosing medical school should choose it on where they want to be for a long five years, the type of course that will help them learn, and where they think theyll be happiest.
    LOL I had pretty much the same experience. I had to sit in on a GP placement and the GP asked me to assess the Bristol Student's history taking skills. I think it was a 4th/5th year student. Basically he forgot to ask about current medication and family history which I thought were really fundamental things to have missed out. But that doesn't make any particular medical school better or worse than the other and you can't pass judgements based on a single figure number of students.

    At the end of the day it's going to take a while for the newer medical schools to establish themselves although I do think Peninsula has had an easier task in doing this than say the other newer schools given that it's been praised for it's research and even had a dental school established (soon to be followed by a Pharmacy school apparently) and with University of Exeter being generally well regarded in the university rankings.
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    Ok so the curiosity is killing me, I am going to work out what freggin schools we’re talking about.

    OPs med school:
    - forced intercalate
    - preclinical/clinical years

    Does this not limit it to….
    - St Andrews
    - Cambridge
    - Oxford

    especially as distinctive preclinical/clinical?

    May be wrong here. Feel free to correct

    But working on this basis the OP also said “both of the medical schools have been guessed separately, on the first page.”

    Med schools that have been guessed on the first page:

    - Cambridge
    OP response “but if it's not Cambridge then it's one very similar, I admit.”
    Makes me feel that Oxbridge may be right?

    - HYMS
    Neither med school being talked about is HYMS

    - UCL

    - Peninsula
    OP has said it is not a newer med school, been around for 150 years & isn’t Peninsula a new one?

    - Bristol

    - Oxford
    See response to Cambridge

    - Leciester







    OP has said they were mentioned on separate occasions so we’re left with

    - Cambridge
    - Oxford
    - UCL
    - Bristol
    - Leicester


    Hmmmm *ponders*

    Now UCL do not do preclinical/clinical, and I think the OP has said that they do, so does this rule UCL out?

    Oxbridge & Bristol & Leicester

    OP said that the hospitals were mentioned on separate occasions on the first page, and although Oxford & Leicester would be a good bet they were mentioned together.

    Bristol will definitely not be sharing with Cambridge considering they’re practically half a country away.

    Do Oxford share with Bristol? Do Cambridge share with Leicester? I do not know these things…

    And yup I have way too much time on my hands
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    (Original post by lekky)
    Ok so the curiosity is killing me, I am going to work out what freggin schools we’re talking about.

    OPs med school:
    - forced intercalate
    - preclinical/clinical years

    Does this not limit it to….
    - St Andrews
    - Cambridge
    - Oxford

    especially as distinctive preclinical/clinical?

    May be wrong here. Feel free to correct

    But working on this basis the OP also said “both of the medical schools have been guessed separately, on the first page.”

    Med schools that have been guessed on the first page:

    - Cambridge
    OP response “but if it's not Cambridge then it's one very similar, I admit.”
    Makes me feel that Oxbridge may be right?

    - HYMS
    Neither med school being talked about is HYMS

    - UCL

    - Peninsula
    OP has said it is not a newer med school, been around for 150 years & isn’t Peninsula a new one?

    - Bristol

    - Oxford
    See response to Cambridge

    - Leciester







    OP has said they were mentioned on separate occasions so we’re left with

    - Cambridge
    - Oxford
    - UCL
    - Bristol
    - Leicester


    Hmmmm *ponders*

    Now UCL do not do preclinical/clinical, and I think the OP has said that they do, so does this rule UCL out?

    Oxbridge & Bristol & Leicester

    OP said that the hospitals were mentioned on separate occasions on the first page, and although Oxford & Leicester would be a good bet they were mentioned together.

    Bristol will definitely not be sharing with Cambridge considering they’re practically half a country away.

    Do Oxford share with Bristol? Do Cambridge share with Leicester? I do not know these things…

    And yup I have way too much time on my hands
    I think its probably Cambridge and UEA
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    (Original post by Alex D)
    I think its probably Cambridge and UEA
    UEA not mentioned on the first page and OP said the "other" med school has been around for ~150 years.
 
 
 
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