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Is there too many foreign students for our own good? Watch

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    (Original post by Xristina)
    sorry, but your argument doesn't make sense. Good unis need good students to remain good. Do you think Oxford will take someone just because they are British ? No, they'll get the best one. It's not a national matter, it's academics, it's the future's scientists, political leaders....do you think the fact that you have a british passport will matter more than brains ?
    No not the case, and this argument seems to rely on the fact that everyone will continue to come to britain indefinately. Yes if universities take their cohort from the whole world they will get better students, but the British students will not get the good universities places. Surely every country should offer good universities, not just britain, it's not britains place to give the worlds students good universities places at the detriment of its own students.
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    I believe the world's strongest minds should have the best education, no matter where they come from. If british students are good enough to get all the places offered, then they should do it. But if some prove to be less adequate for the position in comparison to a non british student, then the later should take the place. Fair and square.
    However, in reality we know that doesn't happen. Oxford etc has to (for equality laws yadayada and to be politically correct) offer x number of places to foreign students.

    If these x places were instead open to British students, we could have x more straight-A students in these institutes. We have too many straight-A students rejected, simply due to over subscription. I know a blanket ban on foreign students isn't going to guarantee these places, however, it'll go a little way to making a difference.
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    (Original post by wootwootwoot)
    No not the case, and this argument seems to rely on the fact that everyone will continue to come to britain indefinitely. Yes if universities take their cohort from the whole world they will get better students, but the British students will not get the good universities places. Surely every country should offer good universities, not just britain, it's not britains place to give the worlds students good universities places at the detriment of its own students.
    To some extent I understand your point in and of the fact that universities are part of a country, therefore aim to educate the natives. But whilst universities are part of a country, they also exist as part of the wider academic world and as such they can't afford accepting people based largely on nationality, since they will lose their academic prestige, which made them what they are.
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    So when it's not rar rar rar those darn foreigners are stealing our jobs/women/council houses/benefits? It's rar rar rar those darn foreigners are stealing our university places?

    For goodness sake OP, grow up.
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    To some extent I understand your point in and of the fact that universities are part of a country, therefore aim to educate the natives. But whilst universities are part of a country, they also exist as part of the wider academic world and as such they can't afford accepting people based largely on nationality, since they will lose their academic prestige, which made them what they are.
    I accept that, and totally agree with you on that point.

    However, in such situations, you would be referring to a DDD (British candidate) and an AAA (foreign candidate) - in this case, it makes sense to accept the AAA candidate. But, in reality, the cases aren't as simple as that. We (in Britain) have more than enough AAA candidates that could fill Oxford, Cambridge etc.
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    (Original post by fire2burn)
    So when it's not rar rar rar those darn foreigners are stealing our jobs/women/council houses/benefits? It's rar rar rar those darn foreigners are stealing our university places?

    For goodness sake OP, grow up.
    Because the OP has a valid point? (Although littered with grammatical errors) :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Dynamitri)
    We're all in the EU, get over with it
    We are all in the European Union but the difference is that historically Britain has never considered itself to be European nor do we see any cultural or national link to Europe. The British people did not want to sign upto the EU. Everybody wanted a referendum but our government whom promised us a referendum did not give us one. The people should have to just get over it.

    It terms of education it has to be the only thing we export to the world. Educating the world does have large economic benefits.
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    6+5 rule for universities?
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    (Original post by WhereIsMyMind)
    Because the OP has a valid point? (Although littered with grammatical errors) :rolleyes:
    OP's post is just nonsense, universities have to take foreign students in order to maintain the current levels of funding and to allow for increased development. It is the government that has capped the number UK students by only providing enough funding for places for so many UK students, if universities want maintain current levels of development they have to take in foreign students to cover the short falls.

    Also as other people point out academia isn't just a British thing, if our universities want to remain world class we need the best students from around the world. Like it or lump it there is brutal competition in the world of higher education and we can't afford to pussy foot around and get left behind. We are competing with other institutions around the world and it doesn't take much to get left behind.

    Foreign students pay higher fees which benefits both the university and the British students studying there, I'm sure the universities themselves know the in's and out's of the issue much better than the typical pseudo-nationalistic rabble you occasionally get on TSR.
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    (Original post by fire2burn)
    SNIP
    I'm not being pedantic, but that's a perfect response and if only you posted that before. :yes:

    Everyone has a valid point (like you), but I feel it's bloody rude to post; 'Grow up' etc, without a valid counter-argument.
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    (Original post by fire2burn)
    OP's post is just nonsense, universities have to take foreign students in order to maintain the current levels of funding and to allow for increased development. It is the government that has capped the number UK students by only providing enough funding for places for so many UK students, if universities want maintain current levels of development they have to take in foreign students to cover the short falls.

    Also as other people point out academia isn't just a British thing, if our universities want to remain world class we need the best students from around the world. Like it or lump it there is brutal competition in the world of higher education and we can't afford to pussy foot around and get left behind. We are competing with other institutions around the world and it doesn't take much to get left behind.

    Foreign students pay higher fees which benefits both the university and the British students studying there, I'm sure the universities themselves know the in's and out's of the issue much better than the typical pseudo-nationalistic rabble you occasionally get on TSR.
    Pretty much everything I wanted to say really.
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    (Original post by crusading)
    Thats easy for you to say. I dont see swarms of british students taking up places in poland, slovakia etc.
    Probably because due to the multitude of factors, English is the Latin of the 21st century and everyone speaks it, better or worse. Also, a lot of native English speakers are just too damn lazy to learn a foreign language, let alone a Slavonic language, the family of which has been infamous for it's complicacy and intricacy to the foreigners.

    Still, I can assure you that there are British and American studens on our unis in Poland.

    (Original post by crusading)
    This is OUR country NOT yours.
    As stated before - you (as a country) are free to think that way, but by accessing the European Union took some responsibilities that go along with it and need to face the consequences thereof. Being made to open your borders to other EU-citizens and allowing them to work/study in your country is one of them.

    Renounce the membership in the EU then - you're free to do this, but will you be able to withhold your economy without the external help, especially in the current economic climate? I don't think so. It's cross-selling - you get financial support, large cash injections from Brussels, no tax on several products imported or exported, but at the same time need to do something in exchange. No problem in going back to being a lone state that severs its ties with everyone else around - but at the end of the day I think that would serve much worse to that country and it's financial condition. than the hordes of foreign EU-students, even those taking up the British loans do, though.

    :-)
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    (Original post by FatboyGinger)
    A huge amount of money is lost from our economy in this way- when the student returns to their homeland, there is no way for our government to get the money back
    Please do not spread false and misleading information. EU Studens are required to pay the money back in the same way UK home students are. And, yes, we are having our loans terminated after several years of not earning over the £15'000 per year threshold. The fact that £15'000 per year is a pretty low salary for a university graduate in the UK and that 75'000 Polish zloties (a Polish equivalent of aforementioned sum) is the salary of a CEO that hardly anyone gets, is a different matter altogether. But generally the same rules apply, and most of the people pay it back, at least partially.

    On a different note - noone has said that everyone comes back. From what I know, most of the people stay here in the UK and pay back their loans, and don't go back to their country, so I don't see a problem with it. Neither do I see a problem with people from the Euro-zone, with earnings higher than Poland or Czech Republic, who pay it back consecutively, albeit in Euros. Noone gets their tuition fee loans terminated and there is no easy way to run away from the consequences of taking one.
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    I think its disgusting that we pay for these foreign students education. It comes right out off my pocket, and I saw a bbc article that was concerned with the vast amount of non british students who do not pay any of their loan back.
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    (Original post by Xristina)
    universities are part of a country
    these universities are now part of the EU, whether the OP and his supporters like it or not.

    It's possible to leave the EU - call for that, swarm your MPs with messages, e-mails, requests, and sooner or later they'll undertake some actions, I suppose. The question is - how long will you do without all the benefits that EU offers?

    Sadly, European Unions is not just about benefitting, there are some commitments that follow the membership as well.
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    (Original post by Dynamitri)
    It's possible to leave the EU - call for that, swarm your MPs with messages, e-mails, requests, and sooner or later they'll undertake some actions, I suppose.
    Trust me, love, a large proportion of people have. It's not our fault that our government fails to abide by the will of the people.
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    i think some people look up to British unis waaay too much!
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    (Original post by Forbidden Fruit)
    Trust me, love, a large proportion of people have. It's not our fault that our government fails to abide by the will of the people.
    That's great - keep on doing this. It would be harrowing to witness the mayhem that will engulf the whole country once people realize how much have they lost by sticking the middle finger out at the Brussels, though. You obviously don't have much of an idea about international politics, if you think that leaving the Union would be much more beneficial than grinning the EU-studens along with their loans and bearing it.

    :shock:
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    (Original post by Dynamitri)
    That's great - keep on doing this. It would be harrowing to witness the mayhem that will engulf the whole country once people realize how much have they lost by sticking the middle finger out at the Brussels, though.
    Lose the billions we have to pay to the EU every year? Lose Brussels deciding on over 70-80% of our laws? Lose the strain of uncontrolled EU immigration?... etc, etc.
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    (Original post by Forbidden Fruit)
    Lose the billions we have to pay to the EU every year? Lose Brussels deciding on over 70-80% of our laws? Lose the strain of uncontrolled EU immigration?... etc, etc.
    As I've said - go on, keep on lobbying, keep on pushing. We don't care - our countries are developing, we always have somewhere to go to if anything go wrong, be it either back to our homeland or just anywhere else, since we don't live at "home" anyway. But you, where will you go if your country gets completely wrecked?

    Seriously now - the problem is being overblown here and the statements saying that "it's better to leave the EU than pay for the foreigners' tuition fees" are just plainly ridiculous, and I'm surprised you don't see that. :shock:
 
 
 
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