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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    I've said it before and I'll say it again;

    He ain't that good.
    Because a truly great hacker would never have been caught.
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    How can a hacker cause nearly £500,000?
    I think a UK court hearing is in order, I think the USA wants to use him an example for the rest of the people trying to get into their systems.

    His Mother playing the 'Obama wouldn't want this' card is fecking ridiculous.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    When have I said that?

    Yes, he should be tried by a court, after all, he admits the crimes he's committed. However, it's clear to me that this punishment that he can expect from the US courts system, is totally disproportionate and considering that they've never demonstrated how these monetary "damages" were accrued, I'm very skeptical about the way the US government is trying to persue this.

    At the very least, he should be tried in the US, and even charged, but he should serve the sentence here, in a prison where he can see his family and he will be guaranteed the support that he needs.

    My main objection is to this one sided extradition treaty, though. I feel McKinnon is being unfairly treated and that the charges against him are too harsh for what he actually did - he'd probably face a fine and a suspended 6 month prison sentence if he was tried over here under UK law. I feel that the US are trying to make an example of a vulnerable man that, really, didn't exactly commit the crime of the century - anyone with a little computer knowledge could have done the same as him (and as McKinnon stated in that BBC interview, many others were doing), and this process is nothing more than torture - him not knowing his fate. His fear is not facing the courts - his fear is not knowing what the US authorities will do to him, and let's face it, they don't exactly have the greatest track record of late...

    Look I feel sorry for the guy too. But he will get 18 months in a US low security prison - I would bet you so, so, so much money on him not getting more than 3 years in a low security prison. I have no qualms with him getting tried and sentenced by a US judge and then serving his time in the UK - after all he is no longer a threat to the US, but after committing a crime he must face the legal system.

    To your last point, stating that the US legal system is not fair system, which you implied by your 'not the greatest track record' si just wrong. What are you exactly referring to in your statement, Guantanamo? The guy will be put before one of the best legal systems in the world and hopefully he will come out of it after serving a time he deserves - and he deserves jail time, a very short stint in a very nice low security prison would be best.
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    (Original post by Terryw)
    How can a hacker cause nearly £500,000?
    I think a UK court hearing is in order, I think the USA wants to use him an example for the rest of the people trying to get into their systems.

    His Mother playing the 'Obama wouldn't want this' card is fecking ridiculous.
    Agreed. I think the US are trying to say that he's cost the US government hundreds of thousands of dollars as they've had to spend this money to sort their security out; which is a total non-sequitur.

    It's like saying - you stole my bike, therefore you're going to have to pay for the bike lock I should have bought in the first place.

    Realistically, all the administrator would have had to do was to distribute a new image to all the computers affected with the admin accounts either disabled or their passwords populated with a strong password, which could be done at negligible cost.

    This is why I smell ******** on the convenient cost in damages in order to bring about more severe indictments.
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    (Original post by fire2burn)
    Sudan doesn't give two craps about what the USA says and would never extradite it's citizens to the US anyway. Half of the countries members of parliament are wanted on genocide and crimes against humanity charges including the president. The US has been telling Sudan to stop the killings for years now, and have they listened? Nope.
    When I said for example I meant that I was picking a country off the top of my head. I could have said any country that does not have a formalized extradition treaty with the States to prove a point, thinking about it I could have used a less ridiculous one^^ But my point is still valid.
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    (Original post by dn013)
    When I said for example I meant that I was picking a country off the top of my head. I could have said any country that does not have a formalized extradition treaty with the States to prove a point, thinking about it I could have used a less ridiculous one^^ But my point is still valid.
    Some western European and a few South American/South Asian countries might do it, but it seems as though a large amount wouldn't. China, Russia, North Korea, Belarus, Venezuela, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Ecuador, Bolivia, Libya, Vietnam, Iran, Syria, et al.

    When it comes to extradition computer crimes are usually way way down the list. Russia wont even extradite murderers let alone hackers for example as the constitution forbids the extradition of any citizen regardless of case or circumstances. And the countries I listed are the ones most likely to have citizens that will engage in computer crimes against the States.
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    (Original post by dn013)
    Look I feel sorry for the guy too. But he will get 18 months in a US low security prison - I would bet you so, so, so much money on him not getting more than 3 years in a low security prison. I have no qualms with him getting tried and sentenced by a US judge and then serving his time in the UK - after all he is no longer a threat to the US, but after committing a crime he must face the legal system.

    To your last point, stating that the US legal system is not fair system, which you implied by your 'not the greatest track record' si just wrong. What are you exactly referring to in your statement, Guantanamo? The guy will be put before one of the best legal systems in the world and hopefully he will come out of it after serving a time he deserves - and he deserves jail time, a very short stint in a very nice low security prison would be best.
    I wish I could share your optimism. You're basing your comments on speculation - you don't know what the US Government are thinking. I'm going on what the US government have said that they intend to do.

    I know that really, he's not going to be shoved into some clandestine detention camp. But he doesn't. The could still opt to put him in a Supermax prison if they wanted to, as in their eyes this was nothing less than an attack on US National Security. This is why the uncertainty over his fate is so damaging. This whole arduous appeal process has come about because of the comments that were made to him, by US Government Officials, about how he would "burn" (again, don't quote me on the exact wording but I know something along those lines was alleged). McKinnon's become a nervous wreck because of these threatening comments. And I know how people are critical of the return to his mental condition, but it's a strong factor in why he shouldn't be subjected to the dubious US penal system. I don't believe he'd get the care he'd need if he was imprisoned over there.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    I wish I could share your optimism. You're basing your comments on speculation - you don't know what the US Government are thinking. I'm going on what the US government have said that they intend to do.

    I know that really, he's not going to be shoved into some clandestine detention camp. But he doesn't. The could still opt to put him in a Supermax prison if they wanted to, as in their eyes this was nothing less than an attack on US National Security. This is why the uncertainty over his fate is so damaging. This whole arduous appeal process has come about because of the comments that were made to him, by US Government Officials, about how he would "burn" (again, don't quote me on the exact wording but I know something along those lines was alleged). McKinnon's become a nervous wreck because of these threatening comments. And I know how people are critical of the return to his mental condition, but it's a strong factor in why he shouldn't be subjected to the dubious US penal system. I don't believe he'd get the care he'd need if he was imprisoned over there.
    Look what one idiot said in the US government does not reflect what the courts will do - the government has no influence on the courts. I formed my opinion on the judgment of an experienced US attorney. He will not go into some supermax prison, nor will he be getting raped every time he drops the soap in the shower. If his condition has worsened then he will probably end up in either a cosy low security prison or in a hospital - in both cases he will probably be paroled after a year. To be honest I think he would probably receive better care in a US low security prison than in any UK prisons - it is the high security prisons where the problems occur in the states.
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    (Original post by fire2burn)
    Some western European and a few South American/South Asian countries might do it, but it seems as though a large amount wouldn't. China, Russia, North Korea, Belarus, Venezuela, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Ecuador, Bolivia, Libya, Vietnam, Iran, Syria, et al.

    When it comes to extradition computer crimes are usually way way down the list. Russia wont even extradite murderers let alone hackers for example as the constitution forbids the extradition of any citizen regardless of case or circumstances. And the countries I listed are the ones most likely to have citizens that will engage in computer crimes against the States.
    Yes but by jailing McKinnon, for a brief period, the US would also send out a message to all solo, non-malicious hackers.
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    He stands no chance of the UK government backing him,. The UK government is like America's lap dog. If it was any other country looking to extradite him, he might stand a chance.
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    (Original post by dn013)
    Yes but by jailing McKinnon, for a brief period, the US would also send out a message to all solo, non-malicious hackers.
    Not really because other solo hackers tend to be motivated by money as opposed to a deep set interest in UFO's, and know full well that they're very unlikely to be prosecuted even if the odd person occasionally does.

    Going a bit off topic but think of downloading despite it being illegal copyright infringement/theft millions of people still partake in it despite the music industry sending out multiple threats and acting upon them, in some cases winning hundreds of thousands of dollars from individual downloaders/uploaders. And succeeding in having those who run torrent sites thrown into prison.

    If people want something and there's something to be gained from their actions they'll tend to go ahead with it regardless.
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    (Original post by fire2burn)
    Not really because other solo hackers tend to be motivated by money as opposed to a deep set interest in UFO's, and know full well that they're very unlikely to be prosecuted even if the odd person occasionally does.

    Going a bit off topic but think of downloading despite it being illegal copyright infringement/theft millions of people still partake in it despite the music industry sending out multiple threats and acting upon them, in some cases winning hundreds of thousands of dollars from individual downloaders/uploaders. And succeeding in having those who run torrent sites thrown into prison.

    If people want something and there's something to be gained from their actions they'll tend to go ahead with it regardless.
    But there is a huge difference between illegal downloading and hacking into a a top secret defense site. One is the illegal acquisition of music, the other is the illegal acquisition of top secret, highly sensitive, national security information - two different beasts. With music downloading, about every person aged 13 - 35 does it, with hacking into the US Navy and Nasa sensitive information, only a couple people do it - those with aspergers (harmless) and those with malicious intent.

    The law is there for a reason and it should be bypassed just because Mckinnon has aspergers - although the sentence should be shortened because of it.
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    (Original post by indigoblue)
    He stands no chance of the UK government backing him,. The UK government is like America's lap dog. If it was any other country looking to extradite him, he might stand a chance.
    If it was France or Germany he would already be serving a sentence.
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8177561.stm

    This is a joke. It's embarrassing.
    we are a puppet state of america.If griffin was PM he would be judged under British law
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    I'm really angered by it to be honest. He took the piss out of their joke of a defence system and utterly embarrassed them, thats why their lawyers are going after him so viciously.
    People can rape and murder and get far lesser sentences. Peadophiles too. It is absolutely clear he worked alone and is in no way a terrorist....it's a ******* disgrace to be honest.
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    I think it's pathetic how his family are playing the Aspergers card as if its some real developmental desease or something. Aspergers may be the reason for his apparent obsession with UFOs, but Aspergers does not cause something to do something they outside their control. He knew what he was doing in hacking into these systems and he would have done it aspergers or not.
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    (Original post by burninginme)
    I think it's pathetic how his family are playing the Aspergers card as if its some real developmental desease or something. Aspergers may be the reason for his apparent obsession with UFOs, but Aspergers does not cause something to do something they outside their control. He knew what he was doing in hacking into these systems and he would have done it aspergers or not.
    Although it's true it doesn't lessen self-control, if he didn't have AS he probably wouldn't be sufficiently obsessed with this UFO stuff to hack into a military institution or two to try and find out about it. He says himself he thought he was doing the right thing. If he didn't have AS he probably wouldn't have done this at all.
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    (Original post by road)
    we are a puppet state of america.If griffin was PM he would be judged under British law
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by road)
    we are a puppet state of america.If griffin was PM he would be judged under British law
    :nopity:

    :rolleyes:
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