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Why does Georgia insist on provocation? Watch

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    Was listening the news this morning and it seems that Georgia has been firing motor shells at South Ossetias outposts.

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...tories&s_name=

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0...outh_ossetia_1

    http://www.russiatoday.com/Top_News/...-shelling.html

    Now if this is the case and Georgia really is doing such things doesnt it realize that only harm can come to it from it? South Ossetia is full of Russian military and citizens and should casualties begin appearing then things definitely wont end well for them :no:
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    I'm sorry, is your head completely up your arse or something?

    South Ossetia is actively rebelling against the Georgian state, and a foreign country is illegally occupying and supporting that rebellion. Yet you suggest firing shells at them is 'provocative'? Madness.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I'm sorry, is your head completely up your arse or something?

    South Ossetia is actively rebelling against the Georgian state, and a foreign country is illegally occupying and supporting that rebellion. Yet you suggest firing shells at them is 'provocative'? Madness.
    do you think that South Ossetian independence from Georgia is out of the question then? they dont deserve it? what about if they were more friendly to USA? would they deserve it then :rolleyes: ?

    The South Ossetian people have never wanted to be part of Georgia. When the Soviet Union broke up they voted to stay with Russia. Recently they have voted again to leave Georgia. Do you not think the international community (especially countries such as America) should support them lest they be accused of double standards when dealing with such issues :eek: ?

    now lets for a minute imagine that South Ossetian people didnt have a near unanimous support for leaving Georgia/being part of Russia (or just leaving Georgia and being fully independent) and the circumstances were different...wouldn't actively shelling them and subsequently endangering the lives of Russian citizens and peacekeepers there not be a stupid thing to do either way? i cant really think of a good analogy but im sure that if some government began bombing/shelling an area with a massive American diaspora because that area was "rebelling" then surely the American government wouldnt stand idely by as its citizens were being killed?
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    Oh, what is it with this place and August.

    If the claims of Georgia shelling South Ossetia turn out to be true, I would simultaneously not be surprised and facepalming so hard. After observing Saakashvili's behaviour during last year's August war, I came to the conclusion that he's basically an utter tool who is, admittedly, between a rock and a hard place. However, it has to be clear that force simply will not work. It simply will not work - and Russia is just itching for any excuse to rock on into Georgia (again) and have a li'l bit of fun. If Saakashvili tries to play the "HELP US NATO!!!!!!!!" card this time if (and, quite possibly, when) things go south, it's going to be an even bigger dent to his credibility.

    That said, If (in the entirely probable case) the reports are false and S.O is just shelling for the sheer hell of it, I feel for the guy, because he's still boned. He can't really fight back (come on, we all remember last year), and no one is going to help out in any way other than condemn the actions of the South Ossetians. Odd, however, that reuters or BBC doesn't have any info on this.
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    If they carry on, i would support Russia should they choose to attack Georgia.

    The people of Georgia do not want their government, the people of south ossetia do not want to be part of Gerogia, why pursue it further?
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    Turkey has occupied Cyprus for over three decades right and still no 'solution' in sight.

    Russia is of greater importance to the West than Turkey ever was, and Georgia isn't even an EU member.

    Georgians are out of luck.
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    Russia is just playing America's game of stepping in under humanitarian sanctions within the UN. The reason for doing so is simple; Georgia had signified it wanted to move away from Russian influence and join NATO. Having a border state do this is simply unacceptable to Russia's new Imperial empire, how effective would an iron curtain be if it was missing a rather large segment? The obvious option for Russia doing this in support of South Ossetia is that it safe guards their curtain even if the rest of Georgia manages to join NATO to come under American influence. It also has the added bonus of sending the right message to the Ukraine; the Ukraine is also splitable if it wants to go against Russian influence towards NATO.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Russia is just playing America's game of stepping in under humanitarian sanctions within the UN. The reason for doing so is simple; Georgia had signified it wanted to move away from Russian influence and join NATO. Having a border state do this is simply unacceptable to Russia's new Imperial empire, how effective would an iron curtain be if it was missing a rather large segment? The obvious option for Russia doing this in support of South Ossetia is that it safe guards their curtain even if the rest of Georgia manages to join NATO to come under American influence. It also has the added bonus of sending the right message to the Ukraine; the Ukraine is also splitable if it wants to go against Russian influence towards NATO.
    How would Americans feel about a close military alliance btw Mexico, Cuba, Panama, Venezuela and Russia? A missile shield in case Americans decide to attack?
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    (Original post by UGeNe)
    How would Americans feel about a close military alliance btw Mexico, Cuba, Panama, Venezuela and Russia? A missile shield in case Americans decide to attack?
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here? Obviously they would be pissed off and try to stop it at all costs. This is what i'm saying Russia is doing... I think they are especially pissed off about the defense systems that were going to be installed in Poland.
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    If this is happening, then I hope Georgia gets it. They should just know when to stop.
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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8181005.stm

    Ugh, the EU needs to send a hell of a lot more peacekeepers in there to prevent **** like this from actually happening. It's simply not good enough to have a peacekeeping force with a large contingent of a heavily biased party in it, seriously. This is exactly why the EU needs to be a hell of a lot stronger, because either claim (that Russia's moving border fences - wouldn't surprise me tbh - or Georgia's shelling S.O - again, wouldn't surprise me) is completely insane, and simply wouldn't happen if decent objective evidence could be collected. As it is, all that's happening is pure Brinkmanship.

    And why the hell is Saakashvili still in power? Poor sod is way out of his depth.
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    (Original post by abrp)
    do you think that South Ossetian independence from Georgia is out of the question then? they dont deserve it? what about if they were more friendly to USA? would they deserve it then :rolleyes: ?
    I don't agree with any secessionist movements, particularly not violent ones.

    The South Ossetian people have never wanted to be part of Georgia. When the Soviet Union broke up they voted to stay with Russia. Recently they have voted again to leave Georgia. Do you not think the international community (especially countries such as America) should support them lest they be accused of double standards when dealing with such issues :eek: ?
    Nope. International law on these matters is clear: secession from an established state is only allowed if the state consents. I don't care what the South Ossetian people want any more than I'd have cared in the 80s if some barmy left wing London borough had wanted to leave the UK and become part of the Soviet Union.

    now lets for a minute imagine that South Ossetian people didnt have a near unanimous support for leaving Georgia/being part of Russia (or just leaving Georgia and being fully independent) and the circumstances were different...wouldn't actively shelling them and subsequently endangering the lives of Russian citizens and peacekeepers there not be a stupid thing to do either way? i cant really think of a good analogy but im sure that if some government began bombing/shelling an area with a massive American diaspora because that area was "rebelling" then surely the American government wouldnt stand idely by as its citizens were being killed?
    Upholding law and order by force is perfectly legitimate. If the South Ossetians don't like it, they should stop attacking the lawful forces of the Georgian state.
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    Because they can get away with it. Georgia knows their genocidal war against their Russian minority is actively supported by NATO. If we took away that support Georgia wouldn't be playing the same games, I can assure you that.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't agree with any secessionist movements, particularly not violent ones.

    Nope. International law on these matters is clear: secession from an established state is only allowed if the state consents. I don't care what the South Ossetian people want any more than I'd have cared in the 80s if some barmy left wing London borough had wanted to leave the UK and become part of the Soviet Union.

    Upholding law and order by force is perfectly legitimate. If the South Ossetians don't like it, they should stop attacking the lawful forces of the Georgian state.

    South Ossetians arent attacking the lawful forces of the Georgian state though. Last year Georgia invaded the South Ossetia territory (1 day after the president said theyd be granted increased autonomy funnily enough) and this year they have (apparently) begun provocative actions again.

    (Original post by Bagration)
    Because they can get away with it. Georgia knows their genocidal war against their Russian minority is actively supported by NATO. If we took away that support Georgia wouldn't be playing the same games, I can assure you that.
    yep. sort of like what the Baltics are doing now with how they are treating Russians. but i dont think Georgia should count too heavily on anything. Russia isnt going to invade them just for the lulz and target practice...only if they deserve it...and if they deserve it i doubt theyd get support.

    (Original post by chidona)
    And why the hell is Saakashvili still in power? Poor sod is way out of his depth.
    because when the master shouts "Jump", Saakashvili's only reply is: "How high?" so no doubt that sort of attitude gets him some help in staying in power.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Because they can get away with it. Georgia knows their genocidal war against their Russian minority is actively supported by NATO. If we took away that support Georgia wouldn't be playing the same games, I can assure you that.
    Like they got away with it last year?
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    Russia absolutely pummeled them, unlike western countries, it didn't bomb them for months before invading, and they sent in less soldiers than Georgia.
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    (Original post by Bateman)
    Like they got away with it last year?
    Well, to be fair: they got off lightly.
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    (Original post by abrp)
    South Ossetians arent attacking the lawful forces of the Georgian state though. Last year Georgia invaded the South Ossetia territory (1 day after the president said theyd be granted increased autonomy funnily enough) and this year they have (apparently) begun provocative actions again.
    There's no such thing as 'South Ossetian territory' - it isn't a sovereign state. Nor can Georgia 'invade' part of its own country.
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    Why do all these propagandists for sundry foreign conflicts seem to congregate on TSR? Russia, Iran, China... what influence do these people think we hold that it's so important we be converted to their side
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    (Original post by Collingwood)
    Why do all these propagandists for sundry foreign conflicts seem to congregate on TSR? Russia, Iran, China... what influence do these people think we hold that it's so important we be converted to their side
    What a cynical view of the world you have.
 
 
 
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