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    Bravo you read my exact thought to be honest..
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    Did J S Mill ever fight in a war?
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    You're a ******* pussy. I bet if you saw someone being raped you'd run away as well.

    Grow a pair.
    This ^^ what a bunch of pathetic individuals.

    OP you are a limp-wristed tosser as I explaind in my neg rep.
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    (Original post by equinoxsolar)
    a better question would be, why would anyone die for this country?

    because they are uneducated and very very stupid.

    i would not waste my life on any war, even world war 2.

    if war ever breaks out ill skip abroad...and return to all the single ladies
    hahaha!
    Imagine if the whole world was as unprincipled and pathetic as you.
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    (Original post by Chrrye)
    It sounds more like Germany started a arms race with Britain seeing as Britain already had the empire and the powerful navy for several hundred years.
    yeah this is kind of the problem right here

    And anyway. Germany was building up a navy and 'wanted an Empire'. Even if they weren't going to go after Britain first then there weren't exactly many places left to colonise were there?
    Someone was going to be fought against, clearly.
    maybe if, at that stage, we hadnt already overseen the most brutal and genocidal regime in history we might have had a leg to stand on

    As for WW2 you say that appeasement helped Hitler, we should have joined the war earlier? Fair enough. But appeasement can hardly be taken as causing a war, in fact its quite literally not causing a war.
    OR the fact that we tried to defend our colonial and imperialist interests even further by condemning the germans to abject misery with the Versailles Treaty
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    (Original post by Asert)
    yeah this is kind of the problem right here

    maybe if, at that stage, we hadnt already overseen the most brutal and genocidal regime in history we might have had a leg to stand on

    OR the fact that we tried to defend our colonial and imperialist interests even further by condemning the germans to abject misery with the Versailles Treaty
    Ahh right so you want to take the blame back a few centuries into the rise British Empire. Or maybe the Spainiards before them or maybe the Romans? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    Ahh, the Germans had seen our reign of terror and were trying to topple the British tyranny because of all the human rights abuses through the ages.

    The treaty of Versailles was (obviously in retrospect) the wrong way to go about it, but the Germans did need punishing. They attacked through neutral Belgium resulting in millions of deaths, the Treaty was supposed to prevent the Germans warring again..
    What did you think it should have included? Maybe give Germany some colonies to assuage their imperialist spirit?
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    (Original post by Chrrye)
    Ahh right so you want to take the blame back a few centuries into the rise British Empire. Or maybe the Spainiards before them or maybe the Romans? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    Yeah because the British Empire didn't exist at WWI, right?

    Ahh, the Germans had seen our reign of terror and were trying to topple the British tyranny because of all the human rights abuses through the ages.
    Nope, they wanted the same thing - an Empire.

    The treaty of Versailles was (obviously in retrospect) the wrong way to go about it, but the Germans did need punishing. They attacked through neutral Belgium resulting in millions of deaths, the Treaty was supposed to prevent the Germans warring again..
    What did you think it should have included? Maybe give Germany some colonies to assuage their imperialist spirit?
    Maybe... there shouldn't have been a Treaty of Versailles... maybe.... there shouldn't have been colonies... maybe... there shouldn't have been genocidal empires.... maybe then there wouldn't have been a world war one?!?!

    And before you get on about how I'm talking about **** that's already happened, changing the past etc. etc. I'm not denying that. This thread, my comments and my posts are about one personally fighting for the country/empire. Why would anyone fight for the most brutal regime in history, that had a large hand in causing the war they are about to fight?
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    (Original post by Asert)
    Yeah because the British Empire didn't exist at WWI, right?
    Obviously it did. It was formed much earlier though so your crap arguments "there shouldnt have been an empire" (I imagine) cant really be brought to bear in relation to the 1900+ with much effect.
    (Original post by Asert)
    Nope, they wanted the same thing - an Empire.
    One person has apples. The other tries to get the apples. Conflict. Cause? >the one with no apples.
    (Original post by Asert)
    Maybe... there shouldn't have been a Treaty of Versailles... maybe.... there shouldn't have been colonies... maybe... there shouldn't have been genocidal empires.... maybe then there wouldn't have been a world war one?!?!
    Maybe... gunpowder shouldn't have been invented. Maybe... we should make love not war. maybe ... we should **** colourful daisy chains.
    WTF is this. How far back to you want to go. Humans want power, fight.

    (Original post by Asert)
    And before you get on about how I'm talking about **** that's already happened, changing the past etc. etc. I'm not denying that. This thread, my comments and my posts are about one personally fighting for the country/empire. Why would anyone fight for the most brutal regime in history, that had a large hand in causing the war they are about to fight?
    Because its their regime. their morals and their way of life and the alternative is living under another 'brutal' regime, someone else's morals and someone else telling them how to live.
    There are not an incredible number of things worth actually physically fighting for in the world but one's country and people and the associated freedoms and morals and life is most definitely one of those things.

    Your comments and posts? And anon neg rep. you wouldn't even be here now getting taken apart if I hadn't called you out.
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    If conscription were ever introduced into the UK, I'd simply leave the country. We have a large enough stockpile of weapons and aircraft to pose a significant threat to anybody. Sending out foot soldiers is a pointless and unnecessary sacrifice, but I suppose you get weirdos and generally violent people in life, and working for the Army can provide a legal output. Like a hitman for the civil service.


    If anybody should threaten us, as I said we have more than enough bombs to deal with them.
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    (Original post by HappinessHappening)
    It defies belief, quite frankly. In Iraq and Afghanistan, our interventions have caused untold suffering and have brought no benefits whatsoever to the UK (or at least not to the average tax payer). We are still America's little puppet. Perhaps if the USA and Britain didn't try to police the world, then 9/11 and 7/7 wouldn't have happened. Why don't Norway or Sweden have terrorist attacks like that? It's because they keep the hell out of other country's affairs. And so should we.

    I must say that I'm rather contemptuous of soldiers. It seems to me that most of them do not question why they are fighting for one moment. Either that, or they fall for the government clap-trap about defending 'liberty' the world over.

    It's been the same throughout history. The passing of the last WWI veteran resulted in a celebration of his life and bravery. His desire to fight for 'King and country' was praised. But why the hell should we fight for this country and why should we consider him a hero? In my opinion, the real heroes were those who refused to fight in the First World War - we stood to gain absolutely nothing. It was just a pathetic dispute between the wealthy tw*ts at the top and, as usual, they used ordinary people to do their dirty work. The soldiers of that war were not heroes; they were unfortunate tools of an evil empire.

    I should stress here that I consider the Second World War to be a different issue. There was a genuine cause in this instance; we needed to stop fascism and genocide. I'm not a strict pacifist, although I still think the Scandanavians were wiser to let other nations sort it out.

    Nationalists are uneducated at best; brainwashed morons at worst. Why anyone would want to join the army and fight for a piece of land with arbitrary borders and governments that don't really give a flying f*ck about us and never have . . . is just beyond me.

    Does anyone else agree?
    Agreed. Unfortunately, there's a lot of those brainwashed types on here, so you'll just get shot down by the rabid nationalist maniacs.
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    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

    - J.S Mill
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    Why would anybody want to fight for their country?

    Nationalism is so last century.
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    (Original post by Chrrye)
    Because its their regime. their morals and their way of life
    Umm nope, because they were conscripted? Nobody would willingly fight so that a regime could murder millions.
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    Because "we are a band of brothers, natives to the soil, fighting for our Liberty, with treasure, blood and toil".
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    (Original post by Asert)
    Umm nope, because they were conscripted? Nobody would willingly fight so that a regime could murder millions.
    have you absolutely no idea what Nazi Germany was like?
    did the SS not sign up willingly and did they not murder millions?

    and you called the British Empire the most brutal regime in history?
    ofcourse there was a lot of killing by the British but a lot of the Empire was built upon trade, where as the German 'Empire' during WWII was built completely and utterly on war and murder. and then thats not mentioning the Mongols, Romans, the current regime in Burma etc etc etc
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Because "we are a band of brothers, natives to the soil, fighting for our Liberty, with treasure, blood and toil".
    Problem is Don_Scott, I don't think we are any longer.
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    (Original post by matt^)
    and you called the British Empire the most brutal regime in history? ofcourse there was a lot of killing by the British but a lot of the Empire was built upon trade
    Trade that required.....

    where as the German 'Empire' during WWII was built completely and utterly on war and murder. and then thats not mentioning the Mongols, Romans, the current regime in Burma etc etc etc
    If you added the death count of them all they probably wouldn't touch the British, just fyi
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    (Original post by Seven_Three)
    Problem is Don_Scott, I don't think we are any longer.
    Yes, that is true. The divisions in our society are becoming too great.
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    (Original post by Asert)
    Umm nope, because they were conscripted? Nobody would willingly fight so that a regime could murder millions.
    Britain was the only country without conscription at the start of ww1 idiot.
    France and Germany both had compulsory military service.
    Of course if Germany threw these armies into the meat grinder Britain would eventually have to take similar measures or lose the war.
    As it was volunteers were perfectly adequate for first 2 years of the war, fighting for country and ideals against Germans, surely more heroic than being forced to serve?
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    (Original post by Asert)
    Trade that required.....



    If you added the death count of them all they probably wouldn't touch the British, just fyi
    thats because the british empire came about during the industrial revolution in which there was a massive population increase and the british empire covered more land and had a higher population than all of those combined but in comparison to the others the British Empire deathcount was lower relatively to its population, just fyi.
 
 
 
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