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Why modern feminism is illogical, unnecessary, and evil Watch

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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    I'm against racism, but this isn't helping anyone directly. Does this mean that being anti-racist isn't a good thing?
    That isn't the point I was making, could you at least read what I was replying to and not quote out of context? She said feminism was about equality for all. It isn't. It's about the advancement of female only issues, there is no all about it.
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    Also the biggest problem with a lot of feminists is that they advocate mass infanticidal murder.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Racism is an entirely different issue, when race relations are sorted out no one suffers, unless of course there is positive discrimination. Whilst feminism is progressed mens issues will never be heard, and they haven't, telling me they will is a falacy. Anti-racism can end up, and probably will end up, with a massive inequality for whites in the future. But at the present it is needed because whites and minorities are not equal. Men and women are equal, they have inequalities but these inequalities although different are equal.

    When I say biting the hand that feeds I mean that men could have just as easily not given you anything, irregardless of if you should have it or not, and because of this feminists could at least give me the respect of allowing some of their causes to be heard.
    How are whites and minorities more unequal than men and women?

    It's not feminists that are stopping male issues from being heard. If the government is ignoring male issues that's the government's fault. If people are unsympathetic to certain causes, that's the people's fault. It's ridiculous to blame feminism for this. It's like blaming Water Aid for the lack of food in Africa, for 'not giving food charities a chance' or something.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    That isn't the point I was making, could you at least read what I was replying to and not quote out of context? She said feminism was about equality for all. It isn't. It's about the advancement of female only issues, there is no all about it.
    I was specifically responding to the 'how does somebody being a feminist in this country help women in Sudan?' comment, I should have made that clear.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    How are whites and minorities more unequal than men and women?

    It's not feminists that are stopping male issues from being heard. If the government is ignoring male issues that's the government's fault. If people are unsympathetic to certain causes, that's the people's fault. It's ridiculous to blame feminism for this. It's like blaming Water Aid for the lack of food in Africa, for 'not giving food charities a chance' or something.
    Because there are very few ways whites are discriminated against in society, whereas there are many ways minorities are discriminated against. Males and females on the other hand are basically equal. Feminism actively campaigns against male issues, because it means them losing something to males. They are unwilling to budge an inch when it means letting men have something at the expense of women with the aim of greater equality, yet they expect men to give them that? Do you seriously think that our government that is full of feminazis would allow a mens minister to be created? Or a special bill that catered for protecting men.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    I was specifically responding to the 'how does somebody being a feminist in this country help women in Sudan?' comment, I should have made that clear.
    O sorry. Well, with regards to the Sudan stuff, we should all be against how women are treated in that country. There is no need to be feminist. When the only use for feminism is to help women in other countries it doesn't really have a use at all, because someone stating they believe in a certain ideology doesn't get sweet fa done half way around the world. The Sudanese government isn't going to stop stoning women just because some women in Britain state they are against it.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Because there are very few ways whites are discriminated against in society, whereas there are many ways minorities are discriminated against. Males and females on the other hand are basically equal. Feminism actively campaigns against male issues, because it means them losing something to males. They are unwilling to budge an inch when it means letting men have something at the expense of women with the aim of greater equality, yet they expect men to give them that? Do you seriously think that our government that is full of feminazis would allow a mens minister to be created? Or a special bill that catered for protecting men.
    How are minorities discriminated against in ways whites aren't?

    You're tarring all feminists with the same brush here. Yeah, I'm sure there are some feminists who are bitter against men and see it as a male vs female war. This is by no means the majority and if you think this in any way represents what feminism is about you don't know much about feminism.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    How are minorities discriminated against in ways whites aren't?

    You're tarring all feminists with the same brush here. Yeah, I'm sure there are some feminists who are bitter against men and see it as a male vs female war. This is by no means the majority and if you think this in any way represents what feminism is about you don't know much about feminism.
    I am going on what feminism has done and is doing to our society. Minorities face a massive disparity in going to university, where as women are far outstripping men in this department. They also have far more trouble gaining employment as well. You can claim I don't know feminism, but I know what it has spawned in the last few years and it is not good.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I am going on what feminism has done and is doing to our society. Minorities face a massive disparity in going to university, where as women are far outstripping men in this department. They also have far more trouble gaining employment as well. You can claim I don't know feminism, but I know what it has spawned in the last few years and it is not good.
    I'm looking at the bigger picture and I also know what feminism has spawned- look at the history of feminism, look at the huge and brilliant achievements caused by it. We owe feminism so much. Women owe feminism their right to work, own property, vote- well, this is all obvious stuff, isn't it? And I'm not saying that just because of that we should ignore it if it starts turning sour, but I'm saying that rather than dismissing feminism and saying we don't need it as soon as women have a footing in society is underestimating the huge positive effect feminism has already had and can continue having on our society.

    Yes, there are a few women who use feminism as a platform to try and discriminate against men. Feminism doesn't condone this, and this is not the attitude of most feminists.
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    (Original post by Absinth)
    I just want to say that I agree wholeheartedly with missygeorgia. Positive rep for you.
    thanks :]
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    I'm looking at the bigger picture and I also know what feminism has spawned- look at the history of feminism, look at the huge and brilliant achievements caused by it. We owe feminism so much. Women owe feminism their right to work, own property, vote- well, this is all obvious stuff, isn't it? And I'm not saying that just because of that we should ignore it if it starts turning sour, but I'm saying that rather than dismissing feminism and saying we don't need it as soon as women have a footing in society is underestimating the huge positive effect feminism has already had and can continue having on our society.

    Yes, there are a few women who use feminism as a platform to try and discriminate against men. Feminism doesn't condone this, and this is not the attitude of most feminists.
    As I said, in an equal situation I am adversed to picking a side. If one side gets promoted ahead of the other instead of in unison then inequalities re-emerge. Women may well owe a lot to the feminists of the past, but that doesn't mean it will neccessarily be helpful in the future. Women have far more than just a footing in society, they are equal with men, the goal of feminism has been achieved. You say that the number of feminists who want to further women against men is low, but it seems the results of feminists whenever they get into government or pressure government is that men are knocked down a notch and women are boosted up a notch. The aims are unimportant, this is about the results.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    As I said, in an equal situation I am adversed to picking a side. If one side gets promoted ahead of the other instead of in unison then inequalities re-emerge. Women may well owe a lot to the feminists of the past, but that doesn't mean it will neccessarily be helpful in the future. Women have far more than just a footing in society, they are equal with men, the goal of feminism has been achieved. You say that the number of feminists who want to further women against men is low, but it seems the results of feminists whenever they get into government or pressure government is that men are knocked down a notch and women are boosted up a notch. The aims are unimportant, this is about the results.
    Why does it have to be picking a side though? The only person making it men vs women is you, and a few anomalies in feminism. You're acting like it's some big battle with men vs women, but of course it doesn't have to be that way. Just like choosing to support a breast cancer charity isn't 'picking a side', I still think ovarian cancer charities are really important.

    I disagree that the goal of feminism has been achieved. I don't think men and women are equal at all. When it comes to the law they are, yes, but so so so many people still have the attitude that women are inferior to men, that women shouldn't be doing this or that, that women are to blame for whatever. Before you say anything I KNOW men face similar prejudices, but if we look solely at the prejudices and issues that women face, feminism very much has a part to play here, and the benefit of feminism is that it's more specific than egalitarianism and so more effective. Just like a breast cancer care charity can be more effective than a charity for general illnesses.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Why does it have to be picking a side though? The only person making it men vs women is you, and a few anomalies in feminism. You're acting like it's some big battle with men vs women, but of course it doesn't have to be that way. Just like choosing to support a breast cancer charity isn't 'picking a side', I still think ovarian cancer charities are really important.

    I disagree that the goal of feminism has been achieved. I don't think men and women are equal at all. When it comes to the law they are, yes, but so so so many people still have the attitude that women are inferior to men, that women shouldn't be doing this or that, that women are to blame for whatever. Before you say anything I KNOW men face similar prejudices, but if we look solely at the prejudices and issues that women face, feminism very much has a part to play here, and the benefit of feminism is that it's more specific than egalitarianism and so more effective. Just like a breast cancer care charity can be more effective than a charity for general illnesses.
    There is no proof that women are seen as more inferior to men in our society. If anything it is the other way around. Public figures are allowed to herang men and blame the economic crisis on them, but I have never seen anyone blame women when a child is killed while they are in care? The problem is that feminism is more effective, and it is far more effective than anything men will ever have at their disposal. This means that women will advance and men will regress. Whilst it may only be a minority of feminists who don't want men to gain any rights that mean women suffer even slightly they are doing an extremely good job of marginalising any mens rights groups.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    There is no proof that women are seen as more inferior to men in our society. If anything it is the other way around. Public figures are allowed to herang men and blame the economic crisis on them, but I have never seen anyone blame women when a child is killed while they are in care? The problem is that feminism is more effective, and it is far more effective than anything men will ever have at their disposal. This means that women will advance and men will regress. Whilst it may only be a minority of feminists who don't want men to gain any rights that mean women suffer even slightly they are doing an extremely good job of marginalising any mens rights groups.
    Sigh. I suspect you're ignoring the most important bits of my posts.

    I repeat-
    'Before you say anything I KNOW men face similar prejudices''You're acting like it's some big battle with men vs women, but of course it doesn't have to be that way. Just like choosing to support a breast cancer charity isn't 'picking a side', I still think ovarian cancer charities are really important.'

    Why do men automatically have to regress just because women progress? It's not mutually exclusive.


    'If anything it is the other way around. Public figures are allowed to herang men and blame the economic crisis on them, but I have never seen anyone blame women when a child is killed while they are in care?'

    Of course they're allowed to, are you condemning free speech now? It's not like Harman's doing it with impunity, just look at the massive amount of criticism she's getting. You're acting like this is the norm, when it clearly isn't, it's very contraversial.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Sigh. I suspect you're ignoring the most important bits of my posts.

    I repeat-
    'Before you say anything I KNOW men face similar prejudices''You're acting like it's some big battle with men vs women, but of course it doesn't have to be that way. Just like choosing to support a breast cancer charity isn't 'picking a side', I still think ovarian cancer charities are really important.'

    Why do men automatically have to regress just because women progress? It's not mutually exclusive.


    'If anything it is the other way around. Public figures are allowed to herang men and blame the economic crisis on them, but I have never seen anyone blame women when a child is killed while they are in care?'

    Of course they're allowed to, are you condemning free speech now? It's not like Harman's doing it with impunity, just look at the massive amount of criticism she's getting. You're acting like this is the norm, when it clearly isn't, it's very contraversial.
    Well, as you well know most womens rights have ended up in men losing rights. For instance for women to be allowed to have an abortion men lose the right to have any say over whether or not the child is born. The same is true for almost any female issue that is progressed.

    Yes Harman recieved criticism over her comments, but a man would have almost certainly been fired, she would have demanded it.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Well, as you well know most womens rights have ended up in men losing rights. For instance for women to be allowed to have an abortion men lose the right to have any say over whether or not the child is born. The same is true for almost any female issue that is progressed.
    Is this the assumption you were basing your argument on all along? Because you should have mentioned it before, as for the most part I completely disagree. Maybe give me some more examples of how granting women rights has meant men losing rights, we both know the abortion one is one we disagree on anyway.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Is this the assumption you were basing your argument on all along? Because you should have mentioned it before, as for the most part I completely disagree. Maybe give me some more examples of how granting women rights has meant men losing rights, we both know the abortion one is one we disagree on anyway.
    How about giving women the right to keep children after a divorce? In almost all cases the children will go to the mother. This is clearly unfair, and is a product of feminism taking an issue too far in the other direction.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    How about giving women the right to keep children after a divorce? In almost all cases the children will go to the mother. This is clearly unfair, and is a product of feminism taking an issue too far in the other direction.
    What proof do you have that this is a product of feminism? I completely disagree, I think it's obviously the opposite- the result of the stereotypical traditional views of men and women's roles in society which feminism has worked so hard to shake off. This is certainly not a result of feminism, women have been seen as responsible for bringing up children for millenia.

    Any more examples?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Feminism is only interested in advancing women in front of men. They have never done anything for men, ever. How does somebody being a feminist in this country help women in Sudan?
    Feminists are not trying to put down men, they are just trying to get women on an EQUAL standing as men, not ahead.

    Feminist (male and female feminist) helped women get the vote, did they take the right to vote away from men? did they ask for any extra voting priviledges? No.

    Men have movements to help them. Same as racism and other causes. Why is it so wrong for women to want to been seen as equal to men?

    Women in Sudan deserve equality to. I'm talking about women across the world. We're all one world remember.
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    (Original post by ziggycj)
    Feminists are not trying to put down men, they are just trying to get women on an EQUAL standing as men, not ahead.

    Feminist (male and female feminist) helped women get the vote, did they take the right to vote away from men? did they ask for any extra voting priviledges? No.

    Men have movements to help them. Same as racism and other causes. Why is it so wrong for women to want to been seen as equal to men?

    Women in Sudan deserve equality to. I'm talking about women across the world. We're all one world remember.
    When women got the vote it was slightly at the expense of men. The vote is something we need to defend, with men that meant mandatory military service, for women that meant nothing. I am not adversed to this because that was a reasonable thing for men to sacrafice for women to gain equality. As have most of the other changes that our society has gone through for women. However it is now getting to the point where our inequalities are equal. To progress only female causes means men will lose out, even if only slightly, and women will go up in status. If we all work together then there will be no disparity. I know that women in Sudan need equality too but what they need is a feminist movement of their own, not for women to cause disparitys in this country.
 
 
 
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