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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Then why do so many do it? I think, in the abscence of a Sharia state who will do it for you, it is down to you to kill your son, as according to Sharia the only way to be absolved of a sin so big is to be murdered.
    Not all muslims are "proper" muslims
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    So what you're telling me is that even though tooth brushes as we know them didn't exist during the time of Mohammeds life, he managed to instruct the people of the future that they can hit their wives with a toothbrush? You know as well as I do that many many men go and hit their wives because of that part of scripture. I already knew about the order they are supposed to go in. With the state refusing to carry out Sharia, that leaves it down to you to use it.
    It is called miswak. It is the olden toothbrush. I can make it from twigs. Only in an Islamic state, is that permissible.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Then why do so many do it?
    Because theyre culturally backward homophobic gorillas.

    Hence they kill gay people.

    It has nothing to do with the teachings of the Quran.

    5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole of mankind: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of mankind.
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    (Original post by 21:13)
    Perhaps he is not as religious as the rest of the family? Is that not realistic?
    If he were not religious he would at least act culturally pakistani
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    If he were not religious he would at least act culturally pakistani
    Why? He may be trying to adapt, or perhaps he has lived in the UK for so long, that he is acting British.
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    (Original post by aprilterri)
    T'is true some people take it far too seriously. I heard something like that. Poor guy. :o:
    Lol, yeah. Poor bloke. Probably going round his whole life living on beans on toast and mueseli, then he gets the chance to be on TV...*excited build up here*...then gets berated... Life, eh?
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    But when I pick up the Quaran it takes some pretty bendy interpretation to come to the conclusion that this religion is in any way peaceful or tollerant. I mean it has clear examples and corporal punishments against non-violent people enshrined within its pages. It even directly instructs you to kill those who convert away from Islam. I actually think the people are better than the religion they follow.
    I have to say i dont agree islam was perfected and nothing can be added or taken away that can make it better. so unless the muslims follow islam to the inch i have to disagree. Thats exactly the point we are in no position to make interprations of the quraan to do this your actually have to study it under a scholar . for example killing people cant be taken completly out of context for example people seem to take the quote " slay them where you find them" out of context and seem to think everytime you see a non muslim you sllice their head off OBVIOUSLY THIS IS NOT TRUE... this is in the context of the battlefield in war were u may acts as defence..
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    The only reason muslim dont like this plot it that too close to the heart.

    I dont know about you but something like this happended in asian muslim family they will react really strong to it. Becuase this no no no in islam

    Maybe Some bits are taking too extreme but not far.......

    Do people remember that show channel four .... Proud Gay Muslim ....
    or something dont really remember the name.

    The fact is that this unfortantly is happening to some families.
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    (Original post by Naffy)
    Because theyre culturally backward homophobic gorillas.

    Hence they kill gay people.

    It has nothing to do with the teachings of the Quran.

    5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole of mankind: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of mankind.
    It has everything to do with the Quaran i'm afraid. Books, upon books, have been written about this subject. And the women who write such books are generally in fear of their lives, because they have spread mischief by speaking out against the superior males.

    In Egypt for instance the rule is:
    "In 1987 an Egyptian court, following an interpretation of the Koran proposed by the Syndicate of Arab Lawyers, ruled that a husband had the duty to educate his wife and therefore the right to punish her as he wished."

    In Jordan 60% of women agreed that it is acceptable for a man to beat his wife if she burns a meal and 53% agreed it is acceptable if they disobey their husband.

    In Palestine:
    Poll Finds Majority of Palestinian Arabs Support Wife-Beating: A September 2002 poll taken by a leading a Palestinian Arab polling agency, the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion, found:
    * 56.9% of Palestinian Arabs "believe that a man has the right to beat up his wife if she underestimates his manhood." …




    So I guess it's just a coincidence that in the areas most controlled by Muslims wife beating is perfectly acceptable? The fact you think it is wrong isn't a reflection of your being brought up in the West or anything silly like that, is it?



    In the words of the so called prophet:
    "You have rights over your wives, and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not with severity. If they refrain from these things and obey you, they have right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are your wards having no control of their persons."[13]
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    But when I pick up the Quaran it takes some pretty bendy interpretation to come to the conclusion that this religion is in any way peaceful or tollerant. I mean it has clear examples and corporal punishments against non-violent people enshrined within its pages. It even directly instructs you to kill those who convert away from Islam. I actually think the people are better than the religion they follow.
    LIES

    You clearly werent reading out of context, you just went on Islamaphobic website, that picked out verses without context.

    verse 9:29 which reads
    "fight against those of the People of the Book who do not believe in Allah nor the Last Day..."
    this is supposedly evidence of fighting until all convert to islam. however, this is a directive to the muslims at the particular time and place to defend themselves against those people of the book who had made and then broke a mutual defense treaty with the muslims.

    Actual stance of the Quran

    verse 256 in surah 2:

    There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error...
    verse 6 from surah 109:

    Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion
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    (Original post by Naffy)
    LIES

    You clearly werent reading in context, you just went on Islamaphobic website, that picked out verses without context.

    verse 9:29 which reads

    this is supposedly evidence of fighting until all convert to islam. however, this is a directive to the muslims at the particular time and place to defend themselves against those people of the book who had made and then broke a mutual defense treaty with the muslims.

    Actual stance of the Quran

    verse 256 in surah 2:



    verse 6 from surah 109:
    I'm reading them out of context because the Quaran needs context. The bible has the context of how to live written within the same book. Muslims on the other hand need to consult scholars and the haddiths in order to 'correctly' interpret it - which from where i'm sitting basically means read the Quaran and find a scholar who preaches what you want to hear.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    It have everything to do with Quran


    In the words of the so called prophet:
    "You have rights over your wives, and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not with severity. If they refrain from these things and obey you, they have right to their food and clothing with kindness. Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are your wards having no control of their persons."[13]
    This is not Quran



    That is Hadith (tradition), historic accounts passed down verbally for ten generations after the prophet's death. Then compiled afterwards, and the compilers out of their own discretion decided which were false or not

    Find me Quranic verses, which in Islam is the only infallible source of God's message
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    (Original post by Naffy)
    This is not Quran



    That is Hadith (tradition), historic accounts passed down verbally for ten generations after the prophet's death. Then compiled afterwards, and the compilers out of their own discretion decided which were false or not

    Find me Quranic verses, which in Islam is the only infallible source of God's message
    But whenever I quote directly from the Quaran I always get the responses:
    1) You cannot possibly understand! You're not Muslim, therefore you are too unenlightend to read it.
    2) You don't speak Arabic! Therefore you cannot get the true context of what is written. (Even though the bible is translated into over 100+ languages just fine).
    3) You need to look at the context from the haddiths, or look up scholars.

    So really it is quite fallable.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I thought it was unrealistic when Masood didn't honour kill his son for being gay. That's what the Quaran says to do isn't it? At the very least i'd imagine he'd settle for throwing some battery acid in his face. He also forgot to beat Zanab for disobeying him. Some Muslim he is.
    Now THAT would be a good episode! Imagine the ratings

    Not that they do any of this for profit. It's all for charitable entertainment
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    (Original post by flowermaster91)
    plus i dont see knowing complaining about a murdering priest :rolleyes:
    I have done earlier in the thread

    And the bit that stimulated this was when Zainab wish Syed dead :P: but I will complain just as much when Owen gets dug back up. x
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    But whenever I quote directly from the Quaran I always get the responses:
    1) You cannot possibly understand! You're not Muslim, therefore you are too unenlightend to read it.
    2) You don't speak Arabic! Therefore you cannot get the true context of what is written. (Even though the bible is translated into over 100+ languages just fine).
    3) You need to look at the context from the haddiths, or look up scholars.

    So really it is quite fallable.
    For 1) and 2), it means those muslims do not have the knowledge, a lot of them are ignorant of Quran. .

    For 3) Hadiths and scholar are irrelevant. They are constructs of culture and human idealogy. Only God's Idealogy in relevant to me.

    But look I agree there is huge problem of archaic attitudes in Middle-east and other muslim countries, but this is simply because of their cultural evolution, they are just simply behind. That is all. They cling to dodgy hadiths(traditions) and scholars, because thats what theyre brought up to think.

    Its the culture that is the problem, not the religion, which is acting like a cover-up/shroud.
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    (Original post by nihility)
    not very likely atheist...
    Atheists are not without prejudice. Homophobia is not exclusive. It is not reserved for those who are religous.
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    Enough with Islam! this is a thread about Eastenders.
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    Our lovely Eastenders thread has been ruined with islam bashing. Grrrr. Thanks whoever moved that in here!
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    Get a moderator to remove it if it continues.

    Zainab is doing my head in. I wish Masood would either up and leave or tell Zainab to do one and stick to that decision.
 
 
 
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