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    Well obviously,
    the nazis were socialists.
    who both nationalised everything,
    and dressed up in shiny leather clothes

    They were not marxists however,
    There are many strands of socialist thought
    of which marxism is but one


    (Original post by Littlepod)

    Socialism should be encouraged rather than opposed. I personally don't see anything wrong with social egalitarianism, collective decision making with all the people of a country and other socialist values. Tis a positive thing and socialism would most definitely be far better than capitalism.
    lol

    (Original post by charlotterg5)
    I reckon so.

    The German economy was in such tatters after the Treaty of Versailles that it needed to be rebuilt, and the Nazi's socialist policies offered a solution. It was pretty much a ruse to gain control over the country in that they gave the people what they wanted (ie socialism) in order to get into power, then once they were there, they could carry out their true intentions (fascism). Not exactly rocket science.
    Clearly you lack the mind for rocket science. Socialism and fascism are not logically incompatible. The nazis combined both socialist AND fascist policies.
    And in discussing the two ideologies, it's not exactly obvious that we're talking about two separate things
    There is at least a family resemblance
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    Isolated incidents, coincidences, and similarities of propaganda posters don't really suffice tbh.
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    (Original post by Kneechuh)
    Nazism is just the child of an incestuous love affair between Hegelian thought and Nietzsche's mad ramblings..
    Don't forget Ficthe and a certain corporal
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Again you ignore my point about religious conservatives.They hated his racism and eugenics.

    About the July 20th plot, they were waiting until it was easiest to be able to defeat Hitler.

    And in France many leftists joined up with Hitler because they liked his socialism.
    Religious conservatives hated racism? That's a new one to me. They were actively anti-Semitic.

    You should check out the Reich Church, the Concordat, and the lack of opposition from religious figures (with the notable exception of Archbishop Von Galen).

    Many of the people involved in the July 20th Plot turned on Hitler because they believed the Reich was doomed and they wanted to save their skin, it had nothing to do with principle, for the most part.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)

    And in France many leftists joined up with Hitler because they liked his socialism.
    Wrong. The righties supported Hitler. When the socialist Blum was in power a common phrase amongst the many right wingers was 'Better Hitler than Blum'.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Religious conservatives hated racism? That's a new one to me. They were actively anti-Semitic.
    The Catholic Church was very critical of the Nazis' racism, for one.

    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    You should check out the Reich Church, the Concordat, and the lack of opposition from religious figures (with the notable exception of Archbishop Von Galen.
    The Reich Church was strongly opposed as being against the principles of the Protestant reformation, get your facts right.

    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Many of the people involved in the July 20th Plot turned on Hitler because they believed the Reich was doomed and they wanted to save their skin, it had nothing to do with principle, for the most part.
    They were the only people who stood up at all, most of them for ideological or religious reasons.
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    Also, that film is stupid when talking about Marx being the first person to promote racial genocide (if he ever did). The quote is taken out of context. A revolutionary 'Holocaust' (or 'holokauston' in Greek) means "whole" "burnt", and so to interpret this in retrospect as meaning mass genocide is hideously anachronistic. Marx is simply talking about an overthrow of the ruling class. The term was only ever used to denote genocide after the mass murder of Armenians post-1912.

    Edit: And Hitler's admiration of Lenin's image and tactics has been well-documented. This doesn't mean they related ideologically. I suppose all the Communists who were killed in Dachau died for the lulz.
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    Even if Nazism is a subset of Socialism, that doesn't mean every subset of socialism is Nazism.

    I can't even be arsed to go into whether Nazism is a subset of Socialism or not, because it's late, I'm hungry and not interested. I am just going to stick to the logic line. You fail at logic on a very basic level.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    The Catholic Church was very critical of the Nazis' racism, for one.
    That's pretty much a complete lie, a failure to condemn the Nazis at the time will forever blot the record of the Vatican.

    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    The Reich Church was strongly opposed as being against the principles of the Protestant reformation, get your facts right.
    Well you were talking about religious conservatives, and the Reich Church had quite a following. My facts are fine, unlike you I don't make them up.

    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    They were the only people who stood up at all, most of them for ideological or religious reasons.
    That's a complete insult to the memories of the many people in Germany who opposed Hitler's leadership and died for it (most of them drawn from socialist circles, incidentally).
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    Even if Nazism is a subset of Socialism, that doesn't mean every subset of socialism is Nazism.
    Of course.

    (Original post by littleshambles)
    I can't even be arsed to go into whether Nazism is a subset of Socialism or not, because it's late, I'm hungry and not interested. I am just going to stick to the logic line. You fail at logic on a very basic level.
    This is coming from a radical leftist anarchist. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Kneechuh)
    However, Nazism had absolutely no solid roots in Marxism. If you want to tie them to a line of thought or ideology, it'd quite clearly be Nietzsche's; and that is the common historical opinion of it.
    And nazism has few "roots" in nietzsche either -
    except the idiotic mis-appropriation of some of his terminology - "slave morality" ect

    the wider german romanticism set the scene, especially herder (kultur vs zivilisation)
    for hiter's montage of bad-taste german romanticism, racial anthropology (which has its roots in swiss physiognomy - see lavater), and socialist economics
    Also note the influence of max weber on charisma and leadership, via mussolini

    Aided by his sister,
    the nazis appropriated some of nietzsche's texts,
    However, nietzsche was far more popular in germany during WW1, when soldiers in the trenches were handed out copies of TSZ
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Of course.


    This is coming from a radical leftist anarchist. :rolleyes:
    You're disregarding his points because of his political views?

    ... Anyone else see the hypocrisy here? Shall we do the same to you? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Kneechuh)
    You're disregarding his points because of his political views?

    ... Anyone else see the hypocrisy here? Shall we do the same to you? :rolleyes:
    Littleshambles is female, and not an anarchist as far as I know.
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    The Catholic Church pretty much admired Hitler. The 1933 Concordat and Pope Pius XII's lack of criticism was one of the main reasons for the Holocaust. Had the pope denounced Hitler, then the support of the large Catholic German populace would've significantly faded. Fascism and Catholicism have always been supportive of each other. Most Italian cardinals in the years running up to Mussolini's assumption to power allowed Blackshirts to convene, and hang flags and banners, in their churches. The Catholic Church had been ardently anti-Semitic since its conception. The Jews were perceived by them as being "Christ killers"; with such a message being embedded in scripture, and with the hundreds of pogroms that took place in Europe over the previous millennium, there's no surprise really.
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    (Original post by sron)
    Wrong. The righties supported Hitler. When the socialist Blum was in power a common phrase amongst the many right wingers was 'Better Hitler than Blum'.
    What does "the righties" mean,
    Have you done gcses yet?
    Hitler was never popular amongst the prussian conservatives & aristocracy
    who nonetheless went on to provide him with most of his generals.
    They had to compromise.
    The national socialists only won large amounts of votes among students, the lower-middle class and the proleteriat
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Littleshambles is female, and not an anarchist as far as I know.
    I was implying that we could just simply disregard anything Don says, as it comes from a staunch right-wing conservative.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    That's pretty much a complete lie, a failure to condemn the Nazis at the time will forever blot the record of the Vatican.
    What are you smoking? :facepalm:

    Pope Pius XI authored probably the best critique of Nazism of all time: Mit brennender Sorge.

    This shows that either you are extremely ignorant or bigoted towards the Catholic Church.

    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Well you were talking about religious conservatives, and the Reich Church had quite a following. My facts are fine, unlike you I don't make them up.
    Of course they did because all the Protestant chruches were forced into the Reich Church. What were they to do, stop going to church?

    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    That's a complete insult to the memories of the many people in Germany who opposed Hitler's leadership and died for it (most of them drawn from socialist circles, incidentally).
    And you are insulting the conservatives and Christians who acted against the regime (and were the most effective).
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    (Original post by Kneechuh)
    I was implying that we could just simply disregard anything Don says, as it comes from a staunch right-wing conservative.
    Oh I disregard it anyway, I only argue with him to highlight his stupidity.
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    (Original post by Kneechuh)
    I was implying that we could just simply disregard anything Don says, as it comes from a staunch right-wing conservative.
    Conservatism > Leftist Radicalism
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Of course.
    Unfortunately you probably do realise that don't you. But you just accept the idea that they are for the sake of your gormless propaganda.

    This is coming from a radical leftist anarchist. :rolleyes:
    And that is known as an ad hominem. You are beginning to see my point? Yes? No? No. Okay. Thought not.
 
 
 
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