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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Oh I disregard it anyway, I only argue with him to highlight his stupidity.
    You needn't try that hard. :p:
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Littleshambles is female, and not an anarchist as far as I know.
    Out of interest, what do you think my political views are? :holmes:
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    (Original post by sandro)
    What does "the righties" mean,
    Have you done gcses yet?
    Hitler was never popular amongst the prussian conservatives & aristocracy
    who nonetheless went on to provide him with most of his generals.
    They had to compromise.
    The national socialists only won large amounts of votes among students, the lower-middle class and the proleteriat

    Read before you criticise. I was referring to a quote about France. Blum is certainly not the name of any German aristocrat.
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    Out of interest, what do you think my political views are? :holmes:
    Well I thought of you as a left liberal, possibly even left libertarian. But I wasn't aware that you were an anarchist per se.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Well I thought of you as a left liberal, possibly even left libertarian. But I wasn't aware that you were an anarchist per se.
    Are you actually going to reply to the post where I defeated your bigoted self? Are you too scared?
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    (Original post by sron)
    Read before you criticise. I was referring to a quote about France. Blum is certainly not the name of any German aristocrat.
    French conservatism is a lot closer to fascism than in other countries (thanks to the revolution)

    I was referring to the use of the phrase "the righties".
    The nazis didn't win many votes from the traditionally militaristic and conservative segment of german society - that segment which had sanctioned the first world war.
    The votes came from the otherwise socialist working class, from
    idealistic and often socialist students,
    and from the lower-middle class
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Are you actually going to reply to the post where I defeated your bigoted self? Are you too scared?
    Defeated?

    Jesus Don, you couldn't defeat me in a historical argument if I underwent a lobotomy first.

    I like to leave gaps between my posts so it doesn't look like I'm hogging the thread, but if you will have some patience.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Are you actually going to reply to the post where I defeated your bigoted self? Are you too scared?
    Dude, give up. You're not fooling anyone.

    After that PM you sent me, I'm now pretty sure you're just a troll. You really can't be this stupid. If you cared about what you were arguing about or honestly believed that you were right, you wouldn't have resorted to petty ad hominem personal attacks.
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    A religious right-wing fanatic? Who supports Rangers?

    Explains it all.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Well I thought of you as a left liberal, possibly even left libertarian. But I wasn't aware that you were an anarchist per se.
    I probably am. Probably meaning, "I need to read and think more."
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    What are you smoking? :facepalm:

    Pope Pius XI authored probably the best critique of Nazism of all time: Mit brennender Sorge.

    This shows that either you are extremely ignorant or bigoted towards the Catholic Church.
    Yeah, cos one encyclical counteracts the concordat and the silence about the Holocaust.

    I think NB has destroyed your point about Catholicism somehow being a major opponent of Nazism, but I think it's worthwhile to look at the fact that the Catholic Church supported Hitler, Franco and Mussolini before trying to paint them as ahistorical upholders of human rights.

    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Of course they did because all the Protestant chruches were forced into the Reich Church. What were they to do, stop going to church?
    Thing is, they didn't oppose the message the Reich Church was preaching, namely violent anti-Semitism.

    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    And you are insulting the conservatives and Christians who acted against the regime (and were the most effective).
    Nope, I'm acknowledging that some conservatives opposed Hitler, though in the case of the military and the aristocracy, they only really got going once they thought they were going to lose the war. Regarding Christians, it's mixed, the White Rose Movement and Bonhoffer opposed Nazism, most Christians approved of the Nazis. It's worthwhile to note that the Nazis had their strongest levels of support in areas with high concentrations of practicing Protestants.

    You on the other hand have written off the contribution of the main anti Nazi elements in Germany, namely the SOPADE (the former SPD) who were vital in spreading anti Nazi material and fostering anti-Nazi consciousness amongst factory workers, with some even colluding in attempts to kill Hitler.

    Good enough for you?
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    (Original post by sandro)
    The votes came from the otherwise socialist working class, from
    idealistic and often socialist students,
    Surely if they voted for a nazi that means that they weren't socialist??
    :confused:
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    I probably am. Probably meaning, "I need to read and think more."
    Fair enough

    It could be worse, you could be a conservative :p:
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Yeah, cos one encyclical counteracts the concordat and the silence about the Holocaust.

    I think NB has destroyed your point about Catholicism somehow being a major opponent of Nazism, but I think it's worthwhile to look at the fact that the Catholic Church supported Hitler, Franco and Mussolini before trying to paint them as ahistorical upholders of human rights.
    The Concordat was to secure the safety of the Catholic Church, it wasn't in any way an indorsment. And they did more than that. The Vatican was heavily involved in anti-racism projects.

    The Vatican was neutral over the issue of the Spanish Civil War and even though many Catholics supported the Nationalists that was because of the disgusting anti-clericalism of the Republicans. The civil war was a difficult issue, the average Catholic would probably have supported the Nationalists because Franco wasn't a facist but more of a conservative and because of the massive threat of communist and anarchist totalitarian leftist radicals.

    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Thing is, they didn't oppose the message the Reich Church was preaching, namely violent anti-Semitism.
    Some did, some didn't.

    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Nope, I'm acknowledging that some conservatives opposed Hitler, though in the case of the military and the aristocracy, they only really got going once they thought they were going to lose the war. Regarding Christians, it's mixed, the White Rose Movement and Bonhoffer opposed Nazism, most Christians approved of the Nazis. It's worthwhile to note that the Nazis had their strongest levels of support in areas with high concentrations of practicing Protestants.

    You on the other hand have written off the contribution of the main anti Nazi elements in Germany, namely the SOPADE (the former SPD) who were vital in spreading anti Nazi material and fostering anti-Nazi consciousness amongst factory workers, with some even colluding in attempts to kill Hitler.

    Good enough for you?
    I'm not saying that decent leftists didn't play a part.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    Fair enough

    It could be worse, you could be a conservative :p:
    Worse eh? I thought you were one of us :pierre:

    And I could not be a conservative, it's actually not even theoretically possible.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    If you watch the video you would se that it (among other things) showed that the Nazis loved Lenin and that they got the idea of the holocaust from Karl Marx.
    The quote about certain races giving way for the holocaust is an utter fabrication.

    "
    Now I share neither in the opinions of Ricardo, who regards ‘Net-Revenue’ as the Moloch to whom entire populations must be sacrificed, without even so much as complaint, nor in the opinion of Sismondi, who, in his hypochondriacal philanthropy, would forcibly retain the superannuated methods of agriculture and proscribe science from industry, as Plato expelled poets from his Republic. Society is undergoing a silent revolution, which must be submitted to, and which takes no more notice of the human existences it breaks down than an earthquake regards the houses it subverts. The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way. But can there be anything more puerile, more short-sighted, than the views of those Economists who believe in all earnest that this woeful transitory state means nothing but adapting society to the acquisitive propensities of capitalists, both landlords and money-lords? In Great Britain the working of that process is most transparent. The application of modern science to production clears the land of its inhabitants, but it concentrates people in manufacturing towns."
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    anarchist totalitarian
    Just no.
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    the NAZI agenda in a nutshell:

    Socialism was becoming bigger and bigger in Germany, although all the socialist partys were weak as they all had different ideas on how to change Germany. along comes a charismatic Austrian who was FANTASTIC at gaining people's trust, and he united the majority of the major socialist partys (not because he believed in socialism but rather he needed the people's trust).

    what he did: He tried to unite Germany against a common enemy...

    The obvious would be the allies from the great war... but they were out because the German people suffered horribly in the aftermath (treaty of Versaille) and the American depression (who were previously lending them money, and stopped when Wall St. crashed AND demanded what they lent back sending Germany into an even greater depression... inflation rocketed daily [there are famous pictures of people using wheelbarrows of cash to go to the store to buy like a loaf of bread]) Socialists have always been aimed at the poor and the working class, so therefore with more and more people losing money socialism rocketed... So money was the biggest issue, who has money? corperations... who runs corperations? JEWS! (not my view and probably not even Hitler's... he probably just noticed the anti-semitism around at the time (of which there was a lot) and used it to his advantage).

    So since the socialists were mainly working class and ones that had lost their jobs and/or money. Hitler sided with them to gain support and reputaion which he did (rapidly). during his time in prison he wrote "Mien Kampf" (for those that don't know "My Struggle" which supposedly spoke to the minds of the german people... with this book he recruited EVEN MORE support people lent the book to their friends/collegues/family and then he ran in the elections. He came second to "Hindenburg" making Hindenburg "President" and Hitler "Chancellor". Hindenburg dies and then Hitler steps up to President but instead of allowing someone else to be Chancellor Hitler calls a state of emergancy (which legally gave him the right to introduce (without question) any law, he consolodated the president and chancellor positions into Fuhrer and declaired himself "leader" until further notice.

    It then did not matter what he did, as he was the rightful ruler of the country (in German law) and had the support of the German people due to his charisma, he didn't make all his intentions known but he did start to prepare for war by increasing the size of the army (breaking the Versaille Treaty which most of the Germans hated so were happy to do). Bringing in laws that prevented Jews becoming academics, getting Jobs etc. Started opening low wage jobs for unemployed people to get them working and fit. Preventing organised rallys. Endorsed anti-socialist/anti-semite propaganda. He even made it law that people had to report any of the family and friends to the gestapo if they were socialists. Every teenage boy had to join the Hitler Youth (where they were toughened up... these children ended up being on the front line a few years later...

    Hitler might have masqueraded as a Socialist but he was far from it when he got into power, and it was clearly only a ploy to gain support. He kept that support when he got into power (despite mysteriously no longer having socialist views) because he DID so much for Germany (ignoring the bad stuff) he stabilised their economy which was... well ****** i guess :P... not ONLY that but sent the economy booming with the olympics and various other acts, he gave people jobs, he hated and ignored the treaty of versaille that took so much away from the German people. The German people (as a whole either believed in what was happening, didn't care (once he proved he could restore the country) or cared but were to frightened to speak/act out (due to the mysterious disapearences of those who did)


    If you truly believe Hitler was a socialist at heart you are either ignorant or an idiot. Communism does employ some of the above systems but Socialism doesn't as Socialism is purely an economic system and Communism is a political AND economic system... (i don't really do politics but from what i have picked up online) Communist governments will own everything the country produces/gains and distribute it evenly to everyone... doctors get the same wage as sewer workers.. whereas socialism recognises that some people work harder than others and would allow doctors more money than sewer workers. Also socialists believe in democracy which communists don't.

    So NO Hitler was not a socialist.
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    Try looking at the horseshoe model once in a while, this doen't seem that hard to believe then. Also, they teach this in Alevel history.
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    Just no.
    I was going to comment on him saying that, but I considered it too dumb to be worth replying to.
 
 
 
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