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    (Original post by Galatea)
    Exactly - this ridiculously widespread derisive outcry and leery humour against Harman over some mild and extremely sensible remarks is indicative of just how far feminism has to go.

    Her comments mainly relvoved around wishing to improve the rape conviction rate, which is shockingly low at 6%, and reducing domestic violence by an evolutionary process of education; these are both laudable aims, and even the most hardcore 'meninist' could not reasonably dispute them (the spirit of the aims at least if not the methods i.e reducing violence againts women).

    Of course these more unopposable comments of Harman's have been hugely downplayed in order to focus on her more debatable remarks; that the credit crisis was mainly the responsibilty of men. This on the face of it is also fairly indisputable; the vast majority, if not all of the main figures responsible for the crisis- the politicians, the bankers etc are men beasue such a huge number of top positions in both the fields of finance and politics are occupied by men; 97% of bank managers in this country are men.

    Whether women would have done things any differently if they had had these jobs is obviously one of Harman's more pugnacious claims and an definitely a matter of dispute; I for one don't particularly agree with her on that but nonetheless she's entitled to say what she thinks and anyway, unilke her other comments, it wasn't said in complete seriousness. The righteous moral outrage that has been the repsonse goes far beyond constructive dissent and has surely been over the top. And its hardly unreasonalbe of Harman to suggest that we should put more women in the top positions, especially now the generation of university educated women are moving into the workforce; indeed half the workforce in banking and insurance are occupied by women already, so it is surprising that more of them aren't represented on boards. One would expect the discrepency to beging to equal up.

    Women quite obviously have the right to live without fear of violence, be treateded equally at work, and have the same oppotunities as men; these comments of Harman's a not part of an anti-male crusade, as her critics have tried to convey, but a series of very reasonable egalitarian suggestions.
    Yes. This is a very sensible and balanced post. :yep:

    Contrary to many of the posts in this thread, I think most would agree men do not need anyone to 'stick up' for them. They are too comfortable as it is ...:mad:
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Her influence is hardly debateable, she has already created one act that allows women to be hired above men. It's hardly mens fault that women aren't accepting the top jobs and power positions, in case you were wondering over 55% of university places are taken by women, it's not our fault they do bugger all with those qualifications. Of course when it was 55% men that was a big problem and it needed to be balanced, when it's the other way around who cares.
    The end of quotas against women enforced by universities is a comparitively recent phenomena. When men outnumbered women in most universities no cry of dissent was heard, yet now that this has been reversed, the phrase 'radical feminists!" starts being bandied about suspiciously often ...
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    I'm going to throw my opinion in here, and say that feminism is a bad idea.

    I don't disagree with feminism or its objectives specifically. I believe that equality is a something which is highly sought, and I'd like to see it become the norm.

    Why I dislike the idea of feminism is that it is rather self-serving. I firmly believe that any movement for change should believe that their objective is to put themselves out of business. The campaigners against slavery sure didn't have a lot of campaigning to do after abolition, and I think that feminism needs to embrace a future without feminism; where the idea is for feminist ideals to integrate into the mainstream

    Clearly, this does not happen. Feminism is a divisive movement rather than an inclusive one. A great deal of radical feminists will know that using the F-word will garner a few looks.

    It's really a matter of nomenclature. Declaring oneself a feminist sets one apart from the mainstream, and feminism remains apart from the mainstream. For a movement which seeks to become the mainstream, there's an awful lot of divisiveness about it.

    I'd suggest dropping the 'feminist' label, and focusing on equality. I think more can be achieved that way.

    I find that popular feminism (Harman, for example) is concerned with social engineering, rather than seeking an organic and authentic change. It focuses not on people, but on a monolithic creature named society, and one great women herself (Who, may I add, is often disparaged by people who call themselves feminists) declared that the vision of society is meaningless; that there is 'no such thing as society'.

    There is also an awful lot of misandry within the feminist movement, and it is this that I believe creates division. All men are seen as potentially violent, and it is telling that feminists often campaign against male violence against women, ignoring domestic violence in gay couples, as well as the kind of domestic violence that Sun editor Rebekah Wade was involved in some time back.

    I think that feminism is a flawed ideology, because it only sees the world through the lens of women. A better ideology would look at the trials and tribulations of everyone rather than just vieweing men as priviliged, and claiming that women need to fight against men. It isn't very helpful, and I'm hoping that feminism ends, and is replaced by a better ethic, examining all of humanity, and accepting it as good.
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    "Meninism?" LOL! You poor oppressed white males!
    You guys are pussies. Get a grip!

    Edit: Just to be clear, I don't mean that directly to anyone in this topic; but just to this "masculine movement" as a whole. It seems that some people will do anything to convince others that they need sympathy.
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    The end of quotas against women enforced by universities is a comparitively recent phenomena. When men outnumbered women in most universities no cry of dissent was heard, yet now that this has been reversed, the phrase 'radical feminists!" starts being bandied about suspiciously often ...
    Yes, despite there being no cry of descent somehow women managed to get into the position where they make up 55% of university attenders.
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    Yes. This is a very sensible and balanced post.

    Contrary to many of the posts in this thread, I think most would agree men do not need anyone to 'stick up' for them. They are too comfortable as it is ...
    Yes, they lead such easy lives they are several times more likely to commit suicide and die 5-10 years earlier than their partners.
 
 
 
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