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Law Graduate with post graduate degree in Business- Where do I fit in an IB? Watch

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    Hi guys! Im really hoping you can help.

    Im applying for graduate positions in IB's starting next year and Im having a bit of trouble deciding which divisions to apply to.

    Brief Bio/Info:

    Graduated last year with a 2:1 in Law from Manchester University. Focused on corporate modules like Company Law, Law & Economics, Insurance Law etc.

    Offered a scholarship to study European Business Management at manchester Business School. Modules included International Business, Economics, Financial Accounting etc.

    Relevant Work Experience:

    Vacation scheme at top 20 corporate Law firm (Corporate Department)

    Placement at leading oil services company. Produced 300+ page business strategy report (emerging markets, international expansion, CRM with clients like Shell etc). Got offered a full time role with company. (declined, not what I want to do)


    Okay, seems like the logical division for me would be complaince but Im really drawn to sales because of the client relationship aspect of the role and the hours. Not keen on IBD at all, I like the advisory nature of the role but I cant hack the hours. I have also considered research but I heard it is heavily quantitative. Im not going to lie, although I had a B in Maths GCSE's, its not my greatest strenght.:o: (I'm going on a maths refresher course though)

    According to GS's 'where do I fit in' quiz, Im a match for legal (no way am I paying for Law school myself) , compliance (someone here described it as being a hall monitor ), Equity research and Equity (Sales and Trading).

    So anyway, where do guys think I am most likely to get a job? Can I get into sales? I just need to get to interview stage at least!

    Thanks so much for reading this, I hope u can help.
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    Grad position in Sales will be very difficult for you to secure, given the lack of an internship in Banking, maybe you should try getting an internship first, or split your applications between internships and grad positions. The Oil Services placement looks tasty though, would definitely look good on a Sales/Research targeted CV.
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    Thanks guys! Loggins I was told graduates cant get internships unless they are doing masters. Im not, I cant afford anymore debt unfortunately.
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    (Original post by Arabellaxxx)
    Thanks guys! Loggins I was told graduates cant get internships unless they are doing masters. Im not, I cant afford anymore debt unfortunately.
    You can always say you're 'intending to do a masters', as I've said in this subforum many times before. It's possible during the application process to say you're planning on doing a Masters and intend to start applying in Easter or whatever. By that time your 'funding' might have fallen through, or you may not have secured your place, <insert numerous other potential excuses for not doing a Masters>.

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    Ohhh, I like Thanks!

    Any other opinions?
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    (Original post by Arabellaxxx)
    Ohhh, I like Thanks!

    Any other opinions?
    With your background, there's also the option of getting into a Big4 firm in a Corporate Finance Role, or one of their other roles in Tax/Audit/Consulting. Work hard for 3 years, come out with the ACA and there are numerous other opportunities available. Also, if you are going to take a year out, look for things to bolster your CV, like off-cycle internships - I know Credit Suisse amongst others offer a 6 month program in IBD which starts in Autumn, so would be perfect for someone on a gap year. Other than that, try to get yourself to as many careers fairs as possible, there's no substitute for networking!

    Good luck.
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    What do you honestly think about compliance? Is that a feasible transition option? I was thinking of getting into equity compliance and somehow wiggling myway into sales as I learnt more about the industry. It seems quite a few people on here have expressed disdain/contempt for compliance and im struggling to understand why.


    I will definately check out the credit suisse internships and Im applying for a listed products internship with societe generale too. I know I would do well with corporate finance but Im just soooooo put off by the hours! Consulting sounds good. My course was a 'mini mba' and we had a few consultancy firms trying to poach us.
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    (Original post by Arabellaxxx)
    What do you honestly think about compliance? Is that a feasible transition option? I was thinking of getting into equity compliance and somehow wiggling myway into sales as I learnt more about the industry. It seems quite a few people on here have expressed disdain/contempt for compliance and im struggling to understand why.


    I will definitely check out the credit suisse internships and Im applying for a listed products internship with societe generale too. I know I would do well with corporate finance but Im just soooooo put off by the hours! Consulting sounds good. My course was a 'mini mba' and we had a few consultancy firms trying to poach us.
    To be honest, I had a couple of friends who interned in Compliance last summer, and it seems you're right in saying they're the 'hall monitors' of the bank, who many people seem to have disdain for. My friends from there said that all they did really was sit there monitoring emails and the firm's in house chat system to make sure that no suspicious emails/messages that might compromise the firm were being sent. They said that they learned very little about products or banking from their experience.

    If you're seriously considering going in through the Back Office, you'd be best off getting into Product Control, Operations (by becoming a Sales/Trading Assistant) or Finance, at least you'd learn a few things about products as well as some transferable computing skills. Even so, I really wouldn't reccomend any of these routes since nowadays it's becoming increasingly difficult to move forward once you take a role that isn't front office - you tend to pidgeonhole yourself. I thought I could do it last summer myself, so spent time on a Middle Office desk, which was useful, but it didn't work overall in terms of getting me a front office job -(though I'm interning again this summer in a Front Office job).
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    Wow... Thanks for that insight! Good luck with your FO position!
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    Just an interesting fact you might like, Charlie Munger, CIO of Berkshire hathaway, and Warren's main partner started off as a lawyer before moving into equity research. Also, Jim (James) Cramer of Mad Money CNBC, multi million dolar hedge fund manager also went to Law School. Law teaches you to use your analytical skills and be objective in your reasoning. Dont be put off by the quantitative side, any one can learn to read a set of financial statements.
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    (Original post by loggins)
    You can always say you're 'intending to do a masters', as I've said in this subforum many times before. It's possible during the application process to say you're planning on doing a Masters and intend to start applying in Easter or whatever. By that time your 'funding' might have fallen through, or you may not have secured your place, <insert numerous other potential excuses for not doing a Masters>.

    This works!
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    Thank you so much guys! Im off to the city business library now to read up on IB
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    (Original post by Arabellaxxx)
    So anyway, where do guys think I am most likely to get a job? Can I get into sales? I just need to get to interview stage at least!
    Where do you want to work, that is the question.

    Very few people from law get into IB, and even fewer from Manchester. Your best bet would be go to a law firm, do your exams and then move into IB as a manager in legal/compliance.

    Any sort of quizes are suspect to personal bias.
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    (Original post by uthinkilltellu)
    Very few people from law get into IB, and even fewer from Manchester.
    Agree with the latter, disagree with the former.

    Not sure what your experience has been, but I know of a fair few people with Law degrees who've moved into IB, particularly in IBD. Though Manchester Law is probably not the same as a Law degree from Oxbridge/LSE/Durham...

    Anyhow, if I were an IB interviewer, any candidate in front of me would be getting a serious serious grilling as to why they want a career in Banking rather than Law. Be prepared with some very good answers.
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    I want to work in sales. I feel the selling skills I gained from working over 4 years in retail will transfer well to the role. I also like the hours and the client relationship element. I really am not keen on IBD, I know that I would enjoy working in IBD because I have always had a strong interest in M&A but the hours have put me off soo much. I respect those in that position but I really cant imagine myself working over 100hr weeks consistently. My friend works in IBD at Barcap and he constantly looks drained.

    Getting a training contract with a law firm is not the easiest thing in this climate. I have tried and Investment banking has always been my alternate career path. Thats why a lotof my law modules were geared towards finance. I know that I will have a bit of a challenge convincing interviewers about banking but I will certainly try. I just want to get to interview stage and not have my app thrown out at the first hurdle!
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    (Original post by Arabellaxxx)
    I want to work in sales. I feel the selling skills I gained from working over 4 years in retail will transfer well to the role. I also like the hours and the client relationship element. I really am not keen on IBD, I know that I would enjoy working in IBD because I have always had a strong interest in M&A but the hours have put me off soo much. I respect those in that position but I really cant imagine myself working over 100hr weeks consistently. My friend works in IBD at Barcap and he constantly looks drained.

    Getting a training contract with a law firm is not the easiest thing in this climate. I have tried and Investment banking has always been my alternate career path. Thats why a lotof my law modules were geared towards finance. I know that I will have a bit of a challenge convincing interviewers about banking but I will certainly try. I just want to get to interview stage and not have my app thrown out at the first hurdle!
    I'm sorry, but this is a fairly ridiculous statement. Many aspiring Bankers I know have Law as their backup career :p: . In this climate why would S&T be any more attainable than Law?
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    Its not a ridiculous statement. The stats are 150+ applications per training contract position. Law firms are not hiring as much as they used to since they have deferred the start dates of most of thier trainees. Why hire recruits for 2011 when your 2010 entry class have been deferred. For example most of the magic cicle firms said they had 'limited training contract opportunities' to start in 2012/13! and the deadline for that was last month. Thats almost three years, Im not going to sit around and wait!

    My dad was a merchant banker in nigeria so IB has always been at the back of my mind. I would love to do law but I am also keen on IB. Having read a few profiles of lawyers who have successfully made the move into IB, I have decided to apply for compliance. This way I can observe the banking environment and decide then whether to go to law school part-time and still chase the law dream or do a part time masters in finance and chase the sales dream.

    I realise that work experience is crucial to getting a sales or equity research job and Im applying for off cycle internships right now. PLease let me know if you have spotted any work experience opportunities or banks that let you apply for grad positions and internships. So far, I have only seen societe generale. (Im choosing to apply for grad positions instead of internships)
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    Very few people from law get into IB
    At analyst level this is by and large true. Though I'm doing law at University and have experienced no problem whatsoever in landing interviews in IBD at decent BB banks. Totally anecdotal I know, but I also know 10-15 lawyers currently taking up FO rules in BB banks or currently interning. As long as the lawyer in question is prepared to do the extra leg work they shouldn't come up against to many barriers to entry on the basis of their degree.

    and even fewer from Manchester
    True, dat.

    Your best bet would be go to a law firm, do your exams and then move into IB as a manager in legal/compliance.
    This is nonsense. So many city lawyers, especially those who have trained/work at US firms, have worked in banking roles before returning to private practice. Though again this seems to be at a VP/senior associate level within the banking structure. In the group i sat with at my firm, four of the partners had all held business side roles in top BB's for several years, several more had held roles in PE firms again on the deal side rather than the law.

    Compliance/in-house legal are not the "only" available exit opps. They're the only one's available if said person (a) trained at a **** firm or, (b) was sub-par in their job.

    Fact is some of the most senior bankers out there started off life in private practice law.
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    By and large everyone has their views and opinions, there is no concrete answer to the OP's question. In my IBD class there are no lawers and the lawer friends I have have struggled to break into banking (although very few tried, truth be told). But based onyour experiences and your friends/people you know, you are right. It's just it is a case by case answer, and I gave my advice tailored to the OP. But it doesn't really matter, I'm sure the OP is clever enough to make up their own mind.


    (Original post by Redeyejedi)
    At analyst level this is by and large true. Though I'm doing law at University and have experienced no problem whatsoever in landing interviews in IBD at decent BB banks. Totally anecdotal I know, but I also know 10-15 lawyers currently taking up FO rules in BB banks or currently interning. As long as the lawyer in question is prepared to do the extra leg work they shouldn't come up against to many barriers to entry on the basis of their degree.
    I assume you mean untrue.

    What proportion of their respective classes do these lawers make up?

    (Original post by Redeyejedi)
    This is nonsense. So many city lawyers, especially those who have trained/work at US firms, have worked in banking roles before returning to private practice. Though again this seems to be at a VP/senior associate level within the banking structure. In the group i sat with at my firm, four of the partners had all held business side roles in top BB's for several years, several more had held roles in PE firms again on the deal side rather than the law.

    Compliance/in-house legal are not the "only" available exit opps. They're the only one's available if said person (a) trained at a **** firm or, (b) was sub-par in their job.

    Fact is some of the most senior bankers out there started off life in private practice law.
    How many of those studied at Manchester?
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    wow didnt think manchester was that bad

    It was top 10 for law when I was applying in 2005. I guess things changed a lot
 
 
 
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