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    I realise the title of this thread may seem controversial.
    However, I want to make the point that I believe that popularity of the BNP in some of the poorest and most socially deprived parts of the country represents a failure of Government policy.

    1.) I find the attitude of the BNP towards race abhorrent. However, government polict on immigration does not reflect the fact that the mass import of cheap labour from Eastern Europe chiefly benefits and 'elite' in this country. Young, fit, and well educated immigrants keep down the cost of construction, shop work, domestic cleaners. This is all very well if you are an MP with a generous expense allowance. However, if you are not particularly intelligent, poorly educated, in poor health it is very difficult to compete economically with higher skilled migrants. You may well argue this is no bad thing, surely the best qualified individual should get the best job. However, to my mind, this seems rather ruthless. Surely, even the most poorly educated / skilled of us should have a decent chance at getting some sort of meaningful job.

    The typical BNP voter is male, formerly a skilled or semi skilled worker, often a former trade unionist, who has lost his job in the manufacturing industry. The government seems more than happt to bil out the banks. However, their attitude towards the industries that employ those without a university education seems unfair.

    So in conclusion. Instead of writing off all BNP voter as knuckle dragging thugs we should realise that many of these individuals are among the most vunlerable in society. They have not been able to reap the fruits of the education system, nor avail of well paid employment. In the Midlands and the North many well paid jobs in manufacturing and car production have been lost, and replaces with minimum wage shop jobs, warehousing and call centres.

    The BNP is misguided and racist. However, their support would soon disappear if the government did something to support those who need its help most.

    Opinions?

    Thanks

    SULPICIA
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    (Original post by sulpicia)
    aNY THOUGHTS GUYS?
    Bumping a thread after 7 minutes is a little excessive, don't you think? :curious:
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    Bumping a thread after 7 minutes is a little excessive, don't you think? :curious:
    debumped...wait a minute...
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    Excellent opening post, sulpicia.

    I think I have to agree, with a couple of caveats. I think that firstly, one has to consider the wider environment. Labour has been having to fight a war on numerous fronts (both metaphorically and literally) - the financial crisis, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, PR battles with the public to name but a few, so while the Government may have been perceived to have failed the 'typical' BNP voters, weighting must be given to the fact that they are human, and it is has been an incredibly tough past two years (which has seen the largest rise in BNP membership).

    Secondly, there's also an element of tough love. Immigration is the talk of the town, and it is true that some domestic workers will lose out. But for the country as a whole, it is actually beneficial, on two main fronts: Firstly for the economy. A highly motivated and productive workforce that works at competitive costs works a lot better than an economy full of less productive workers, demanding ever higher wages. Secondly, in terms of demographics. You will no doubt be aware that Britain is staring right in the face of a demographic time bomb, with a rapidly ageing population - we need more workers to help support this swelling demographic, and we simply don't have the workers in our domestic economy. The downside to all this, is as you noted, a disenchantment with Government amongst the proletariat.

    You raise the question of increasing opportunities for the working class to move into better jobs, and I agree with you that I feel the Government has failed tremendously. It seems too believe that university is the only way to a job, and has squandered far too much money on grants and loans that allow everyone to go to university, without realising that Apprenticeships and Internships would be an equally deserving path to go down. I fear there are many people who go to university without knowing /why/, and that is surely a waste of money and people.

    I think the conclusion you come to is correct, if an evident truth. People will always tend to stray into an extreme party during times of hardship as they become disenchanted with the incumbent political system.
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    The BNP are really taking advantage of this with the kind of socialist policies old labour supported, e.g. protectionism in trade, nationalisation of banks and industries, nationalisation of servises and so on.

    It's no coincidence that the two BNP seats in Europe are both from northern labour heartlands - and yes this is a result of the betrayal of new labour to those with true socialist values. Some socialists are stuck with nobody and wouldn't dream of voting BNP still, these are the champagne socialists and the students. But those in the north who are living in the real world and who are finding it tough; they seem to be willing to turn to the BNP despite their links to racism. Maybe some voters think it's an actively good thing, but I'd like to think there is more to it than that.

    I also agree that it is inconsistent to bail out banks, but not to do so for manufacturing industries etc, and this kind of policy alienates members of society who feel that the government have it in for them. My solution would be to not bailout anybody and at least that way everybody understands that this is the point of capitalism - and nobody feels like others are getting special treatment.

    It's also slightly ironic how socialists hate capitalism and love immigration; the latter being loved apparently because of the "best man for the job" line of thinking. However when that's the situation between two indigenous people, it's terrible and whoever is worst off as a result deserves support from society - yet when BNP voters lose out to immigrants a much harsher attitude is shown towards them. Is it fair for the best workers to get the jobs or not?

    Yes the BNP are misguided, firstly because racism is never the answer - and also because the socialist policies they expect to save them would actually cripple the economy and make them even poorer than they are now. But at least they realise that something is wrong with society, and they're trying to do something about it, they're just looking in the wrong place at the moment.
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    I agree with the OP.
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    Do you happen to come from the south OP? I liked the way you singled out the Midlands and the North to have less skilled workers ....

    But I agree with what you say in anycase, the government should look after those in Primary and Secondary employment i.e. those in the making of raw materials such as farmers and miners, and those in the manufacturing industry. They seem too concerned with keeping there own heads above water at the moment though ....

    At least next year we'll get a proper government ....
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    I disagree with the title OP.

    I'd say Labour failed; hence we have BNP voters.
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    The establishment has failed BNP voters; it's not the fault of any single party or leader.
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    (Original post by Quite tall mike)
    Do you happen to come from the south OP? I liked the way you singled out the Midlands and the North to have less skilled workers ....
    It's a fact, to be blunt. Like I said earlier, both BNP seats were won in northern areas - and that's generally where their votes come from during other elections as well. It's just because there were more raw materials in the north; its nothing to do with the actual people obviously.
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    I agree, completely. Labour need to either lose the next election and take a good long look at themselves or align themselves with the Liberals in a hung parliament - the loss of left-wing politics in the UK is manifesting itself in an ugly manner.
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    (Original post by Quite tall mike)
    Do you happen to come from the south OP? I liked the way you singled out the Midlands and the North to have less skilled workers ....

    But I agree with what you say in anycase, the government should look after those in Primary and Secondary employment i.e. those in the making of raw materials such as farmers and miners, and those in the manufacturing industry. They seem too concerned with keeping there own heads above water at the moment though ....

    At least next year we'll get a proper government ....
    Yes I am from the South, and sorry if I did imply anything. I probably should have separated out my points a bit more. As regards the north, I think Government should have worked harder to capitalise on the existing skilled workforce. It simply does not make sense to have skilled workers, who have had considerable amounds of money invested in their development working in unskilled minimum wage jobs. I believe this disprop affects the north.

    My second main point is that a vicious marketplace economy does little to suppoort the socially marginalised.
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    TBF I think labour has failed EVERYONE.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    It's also slightly ironic how socialists hate capitalism and love immigration; the latter being loved apparently because of the "best man for the job" line of thinking.
    A sweeping generalisation. If you look at the most socialist parties in the last European election (Socialist Labour, No2EU), they are against the EU because of the freedom of movement. Any proper socialist would be, in my opinion.
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    (Original post by JW92)
    A sweeping generalisation. If you look at the most socialist parties in the last European election (Socialist Labour, No2EU), they are against the EU because of the freedom of movement. Any proper socialist would be, in my opinion.
    I thought socialist ideology was open-borders.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    I thought socialist ideology was open-borders.
    It depends on the strain of socialism.
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    (Original post by SoundDevastation)
    It depends on the strain of socialism.
    I know anti-state socialism will be open borders; but what about pro-state socialism?
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    Secondly, there's also an element of tough love. Immigration is the talk of the town, and it is true that some domestic workers will lose out. But for the country as a whole, it is actually beneficial, on two main fronts: Firstly for the economy. A highly motivated and productive workforce that works at competitive costs works a lot better than an economy full of less productive workers, demanding ever higher wages.

    Very true, but works well for who..., for employers, certainly, for tax revenues, quite possibly but for a 50 year old man in the consruction industry, who works to support his teenage children who is finding it very difficult to keep up the same productivity as a fit younf Polish 25 year old.....I think not

    Secondly, in terms of demographics. You will no doubt be aware that Britain is staring right in the face of a demographic time bomb, with a rapidly ageing population - we need more workers to help support this swelling demographic, and we simply don't have the workers in our domestic economy. The downside to all this, is as you noted, a disenchantment with Government amongst the proletariat.

    Again, I largely agree. However, again a great degree of this could be addressed by challenging discrimination against the old. At the moment if a worker in a low skill job aged 50 plus looses that job, it is almost impossible to find an employer willing to invest in career development, training. I am largely in favour of open borders. However with a massive unemployment rate among the socially vulnerable in Britian I find my principles harder and harder to sustain
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    (Original post by chidona)
    Excellent opening post, sulpicia.

    II think the conclusion you come to is correct, if an evident truth. People will always tend to stray into an extreme party during times of hardship as they become disenchanted with the incumbent political system.
    Quoted you in previous post.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    I thought socialist ideology was open-borders.

    Forms of Economic Liberalism advocate the same.
 
 
 
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