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    (Original post by sulpicia)
    Forms of Economic Liberalism advocate the same.
    Yes I know, I do (in theory). But it's not a contradiction for me because I believe in the better man for the job at all times.
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    (Original post by mikeyd85)
    I disagree with the title OP.

    I'd say Labour failed; hence we have BNP voters.
    This. How can they have failed the BNP?
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    Labour tried to be all things at all people and succeeded only in keeping the support of a religious minority. They are sellouts of Liberalism (atleast the New Labourites are), and they lack intellectual coherency (emcompassing two core contradictory beliefs: Social Democracy and Market Liberalism).
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    I thought socialist ideology was open-borders.
    I think it's a bit of a grey area and there is no definitive socialist stance on immigration (as far as I'm aware).

    Mass immigration into capitalist states like the UK leads to job competition and therefore wages and working conditions for the working classes are driven down. Socialist parties such as No2EU and Socialist Labour resent the effect mass immigration has on capitalist states, and are not specifically against immigration itself. However, socialism advocates powerful workers' unions and it would be unlikely that these unions would favour liberal immigration, which would have a knock back effect on socialist policy.
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    Poles don't spend money here, they work for cheap keeping british workers out of work and live in cheap homes, then send money back to poland where it's worth a lot more.

    Having loads of poles in is only good for employers who got cheap labour.


    I agree with OP they have failed the working class, lower middle class. One they give out too many handouts, so you now got scum and lots of them breeding like rats, then they let all industry fail and caused lots of unemployment, but bailed out the banks which they had too, but they could of helped industry. Banks are back to making lots of money and giving big bonuses. Of course a party offering jobs to them and nationalising the bank system is going to look good
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    Yes I can see the point the OP is making.

    I think that the main area where Labour has failed is education, which then in turn fails those whom have a poor education- which could used to describe a number of BNP voters.

    We are moving from an industrial society to an information one. So the government in turn wants the focus on young britains to go to university so that they can go into high level jobs, the low level jobs being filled with good workers from abroad who will work for cheap. Which is all good if you are an immigrant looking to send money home, or to a university educated young person who can go work in the city or whatever.

    However, then there is a displaced youth who become disallusioned and have little or no goals in their lives. So what happens? Start shagging around and start popping out a couple of kids, and hold up the child as some kind of ideal goal before working on their own lives. Or they go into a life of crime, or worse some customer services role with no mobility in and motivation to achieve anyhting becomes stagnate because the forgotton classes were not provided a new role.

    Our education system is set up to go to university. You are there to pass exams, rather than to develop thought, opinion, and knowledge. Because of this if you do not go to university then society views you as a failure. This is supported by the media's focus on gcse/A level results. Each year there are headlines saying "pass rates up again" and editorials claiming that it is more difficult to complete the Sun crossword, or something equally idiotic. And so with all these message it means if you do not achieve "good" GCSEs, A levels then you equate to being a failure. Whats the point of trying to better yourself when in societies eyes you have already failed?

    Going back to the point, these people whom vote BNP and are from a poorly educated background, are more likely to be misguided and misled and have little sense of wanting to achieve anything. And so have they been failed? Indeed they have.

    However, to quickly note I think a conservative government would be similar. It would take a radical party to actually tailor education, to actually discuss, analyse and develop young peoples minds. Which is a shame.
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    (Original post by BasicMinds)

    We are moving from an industrial society to an information one. So the government in turn wants the focus on young britains to go to university so that they can go into high level jobs, the low level jobs being filled with good workers from abroad who will work for cheap. Which is all good if you are an immigrant looking to send money home, or to a university educated young person who can go work in the city or whatever.
    its not even good for people who go to uni!
    there are so many people with degrees that i heard there was something like 50 graduates for every graduate training scheme.
    so now you have all these uni educated people who are working in rubbish jobs because they're the only ones they can get, heavily in debt wondering where it all went wrong.
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    (Original post by 1721)
    its not even good for people who go to uni!
    there are so many people with degrees that i heard there was something like 50 graduates for every graduate training scheme.
    so now you have all these uni educated people who are working in rubbish jobs because they're the only ones they can get, heavily in debt wondering where it all went wrong.
    This is what happens when you place more emphasis on equality than on economic growth or personal freedoms - you bring everybody down equally low.

    University fees need to go up, less people need to go, and before people whinge about how unfair that is on the poor - the poor who are bright and capable of going to university in a world where few do should be given grants. But the notion that everyone should be subsidied heavily to go is ridicilous - and the lib dems proposal to make it FREE, my God, it's madness.
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    Labour fail, full stop.
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    If these BNP voters had a smart head on their shoulders they would realise that the BNP is a racist party.

    Just because they have lost their jobs doesnt give them an excuse to vote for such a bunch of w***ers.... Its not going to get their jobs back.

    They have failed themselves...
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    (Original post by stainluss)
    If these BNP voters had a smart head on their shoulders they would realise that the BNP is a racist party.

    Just because they have lost their jobs doesnt give them an excuse to vote for such a bunch of w***ers.... Its not going to get their jobs back.

    They have failed themselves...
    Actually no immigration; protectionism in trade keeping foreign goods out, and subsidised or nationalised industries would definitely give these people their jobs back.

    It's a terrible idea for society, and even for these people themselves in the long run - but it WOULD give them their jobs back, and so you can see why they seem interested.
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    (Original post by stainluss)
    If these BNP voters had a smart head on their shoulders they would realise that the BNP is a racist party.

    Just because they have lost their jobs doesnt give them an excuse to vote for such a bunch of w***ers.... Its not going to get their jobs back.

    They have failed themselves...
    who are they supposed to vote for then einstein?
    and who the hell doesnt know the bnp are racist.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    University fees need to go up
    Completely off topic, but I don't think pricing the poor out of education is the right way to go and barely makes economic sense.
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    (Original post by 1721)
    who are they supposed to vote for then einstein?
    and who the hell doesnt know the bnp are racist.
    What exactly do you mean by racist? If you mean by 'racist' a recognition of difference between countries and ethnicities then we're all racists. If you mean the ideal that one particular race is superior to another, or that it's right to show irrational hatred to another human being just because they're of a different race, then I don't know if the BNP would fall under this category either (and certainly the majority of their voters don't).
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    (Original post by JW92)
    Completely off topic, but I don't think pricing the poor out of education is the right way to go and barely makes economic sense.
    Read my post again, you great big failure of human life.

    Edit - for those who are lazy, this was my sentence:

    "University fees need to go up, less people need to go, and before people whinge about how unfair that is on the poor - the poor who are bright and capable of going to university in a world where few do should be given grants."

    Selective quoting by JW92? Never ...
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    What exactly do you mean by racist? If you mean by 'racist' a recognition of difference between countries and ethnicities then we're all racists. If you mean the ideal that one particular race is superior to another, or that it's right to show irrational hatred to another human being just because they're of a different race, then I don't know if the BNP would fall under this category either (and certainly the majority of their voters don't).
    i would agree with the majority of voters arent racist.
    but dont they want to kick people out of the country who arent white, seems pretty racist to me
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    (Original post by 1721)
    but dont they want to kick people out of the country who arent white, seems pretty racist to me
    Some of their members would probably want that, but officially they're only talking about "kicking out" illegals.
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    In as much as that it hasn't kicked people out the country because they look different? Yes, it has.
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    The BNP should personally thank Alan Johnson for doing their promotional work for them.


    Bloody hell then these idiots complain when the BNP actually make some gains.

    You only have yourselves to blame.

    Labour are loading the gun for the BNP to fire.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    Read my post again, you great big failure of human life.

    Edit - for those who are lazy, this was my sentence:

    "University fees need to go up, less people need to go, and before people whinge about how unfair that is on the poor - the poor who are bright and capable of going to university in a world where few do should be given grants."

    Selective quoting by JW92? Never ...
    My bad.
 
 
 
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