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Abortion watch

  • View Poll Results: What are you?
    Pro Choice in all circumstances
    91
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    Pro Choice in most circumstances
    68
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    Pro Life in all circumstances
    14
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    Pro Life in most circumstances
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    (Original post by CrazyPyramid)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcebIEOkhY

    Bill Hicks should do for this one. ******* hate the hypocrisy of pro life people who endorse the death penalty. I get people who are pro life and i sympathise with them but they are complete moron's if they also are pro capital punishment.
    So there's no difference between innocence and guilt?

    If the government puts a thief in jail, is that the same as kidnapping?
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    (Original post by CrazyPyramid)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJcebIEOkhY

    Bill Hicks should do for this one. ******* hate the hypocrisy of pro life people who endorse the death penalty. I get people who are pro life and i sympathise with them but they are complete moron's if they also are pro capital punishment.
    Could be worse. They could be the Christian Right too.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Erm. I don't see how this is at all addressing what I posted... and I don't think discipline and novelty are the right words. Not being rude, just that this post doesn't make much sense.
    I guess it depends on what you believe constitutes discipline. One person's discipline may be unreasonable to another.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    So there's no difference between innocence and guilt?

    If the government puts a thief in jail, is that the same as kidnapping?
    Well I don't put any moral difference between the killing of someone by the state and the killing of someone by another person. The death penalty does not work and the only real reason for it is spite and malevolence and the part of the people who support it, but this is for abortion so let's not get off topic.

    So there's no difference between a human and a bunch of cells?
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    I guess it depends on what you believe constitutes discipline. One person's discipline may be unreasonable to another.
    Not really, I just don't think you can 'discipline' yourself to be responsible. I don't think that's how responsibility works, and I don't see what 'discipline' one would have to go to to become responsible.
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    (Original post by CrazyPyramid)
    Well I don't put any moral difference between the killing of someone by the state and the killing of someone by another person. The death penalty does not work and the only real reason for it is spite and malevolence and the part of the people who support it, but this is for abortion so let's not get off topic.
    NO, it's a perfectly valid discussion.

    You say there's no difference between the "state" killing someone and someone else killing someone.

    But the state aren't just killing "someone" innocent (like an unborn baby), they are killing someone guilty.

    (Original post by CrazyPyramid)
    So there's no difference between a human and a bunch of cells?
    A 20 week year old fetus is far more than "a bunch of cells" and those "bunch of cells" are human in any real scientific sense of the word.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    NO, it's a perfectly valid discussion.

    You say there's no difference between the "state" killing someone and someone else killing someone.

    But the state aren't just killing "someone" innocent (like an unborn baby), they are killing someone guilty.
    And you're going to have to find a justification of the state which works and conveys to the state freedom from moral duties which are binding on individuals, such as the fact that premeditated killing is murder, regardless of the guilt of the individual concerned.

    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    A 20 week year old fetus is far more than "a bunch of cells" and those "bunch of cells" are human in any real scientific sense of the word.
    Lol, Don smuggles in a value judgement in with his "scientific sense". Don, a tumour has human DNA, it doesn't mean that we have objections to removing it through surgery. Every cell on the human body could, as a result of modern medicine, produce a human being, they're not human in any sense. A being without any of the normal attributes of a human, in terms of neural activity, sense of self, and the like, is not human in any meaningful sense. It's genetically human, but then so are cancer cells.
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    (Original post by Andy the Anarchist)
    And you're going to have to find a justification of the state which works and conveys to the state freedom from moral duties which are binding on individuals, such as the fact that premeditated killing is murder, regardless of the guilt of the individual concerned.



    Lol, Don smuggles in a value judgement in with his "scientific sense". Don, a tumour has human DNA, it doesn't mean that we have objections to removing it through surgery. Every cell on the human body could, as a result of modern medicine, produce a human being, they're not human in any sense. A being without any of the normal attributes of a human, in terms of neural activity, sense of self, and the like, is not human in any meaningful sense. It's genetically human, but then so are cancer cells.
    This. This x 1000.
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    I'm personally split on the debate.

    On the one hand I believe a woman has the right to determine whether she gives birth or not, and she should not be forced into having a child if she becomes pregnant when she didn't want to be.

    However I view life being from the point of contraception, as it is at that point the start of becoming a person. If there is any chance it can survive outside the mother, however slim, it should not be aborted at that point.

    Ultimately I think it must come down to the individual's choice, and I'm not naive enough to believe women simply do it as late contraception and think nothing about it, the vast majority have abortions reluctantly and it's an emotional event.
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    (Original post by emmie19)
    Murder, then God murders a lot. A abortion is a man-made miscarriage. If women didn't have miscarriages then I'll disagree.
    You believe miscarriages are demonstrations of God choosing to murder children?

    How selfish of you to judge. You're not a women. How dare you say a women should give up on her life, her career, her future for you and your petty ideals. It's very insulting.
    It's the nature of having any sort of criminal justice system. Now judging from that statement you're either an Anarchist or a hypocrite. I suspect the latter.

    There are good arguments to be made for allowing abortion in some circumstances. Unfortunately most pro-abortion people seem incapable of making them, instead falling back on clichés and logical fallacies.
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    It is interesting how the supposedly ethically peerless liberal mindset has such blase and easy going attitude when it comes to ending (unwanted?) human life; whether that be euthanasia or abortion.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    You believe miscarriages are demonstrations of God choosing to murder children?

    .
    I think you have misinterpected me, I would put miscarriages on the same level as abortion, and therefore if a abortion is a murder, then a miscarriage is a murder. Because in both circumstances the baby dies before starting a full life. The difference in that if someone is murdered by a person, or has cancer, the way of death is different. But abortions and miscarriages both have a very similiar style of death. Therefore I don't believe abortion is murder, because the chance of miscarriage makes the ideal of abortion being murder void.

    No, I don't think God murders people. I think He's also the Grim Reaper, so it's his job to make sure there's a number of deaths in the population. If he exists, he controls disease and natural disasters. However, as a result, I think he's also a massive prick...
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    I am mostly pro-choice, I would never have an abortion, for religious reasons, but I can see reasons why people would have one. I think that it shouldn't be an option for people who get pregnant, just because they couldn't be bothered to atleast try and use some form of contraception.
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    (Original post by Jingers)
    It's the woman's body so I think you should let her decide.
    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Pro choice in all circumstances. S'my body.
    If it's YOUR body, why did you get pregnant in the first place? So what if it's your body, it's another human beings LIFE!

    (Exception to rape and things like that)
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    (Original post by kevin_123)
    If it's YOUR body, why did you get pregnant in the first place? So what if it's your body, it's another human beings LIFE!

    (Exception to rape and things like that)
    You must have been bored to have revived this thread from so long ago.
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    (Original post by Jingers)
    You must have been bored to have revived this thread from so long ago.
    Yeah but still, you dont seem to have an answer..
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    (Original post by kevin_123)
    Yeah but still, you dont seem to have an answer..
    Because I don't care about what you said.
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    (Original post by Jingers)
    Because I don't care about what you said.
    Well, you obviously do, because if you didn't you wouldn't even bother replying.. you know I am right and got nothing to counter it with..
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    (Original post by kevin_123)
    Well, you obviously do, because if you didn't you wouldn't even bother replying.. you know I am right and got nothing to counter it with..
    ok
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    (Original post by kevin_123)
    If it's YOUR body, why did you get pregnant in the first place? So what if it's your body, it's another human beings LIFE!

    (Exception to rape and things like that)
    What the hell? look at the date of the post. You're way too late.
 
 
 
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