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Debunking Muslim demographics youtube video Watch

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    (Original post by PGtips92)
    Don't mind your grand-kids living in an intolerant, Islamic society?

    (not saying Muslims will take over in X amount of time, just saying that surely you'd be against it if it was to happen...)
    I'm going to agree with you on this. I don't care if my kids live in a majority Muslim or majority black state. It doesn't bother me. What would bother me is having them live in anything other than a secular state.
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    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    Can you find me an anti-Christian video on YouTube with 10 million views please.
    The views are irrelevant, considering videos with toddlers giggling receive more views than the video in question, that logic is also flawed as the BBC website didn't 'debunk' Fitna to this extent, which received much more attention. This video is also quite insignificant, as there's been no major reporting in relation to the video and the BBC have just provided it with more attention.

    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    How is this pandering to Muslims?
    Why is so much time, effort and money being invested into 'debunking' a video in regards to Muslim demographics? The BBC is notorious for implementing affirmative action in regards to Muslims. Surely a organisation which is supposed to be impartial and represent the views of all its demographics would also 'debunk' other videos targeted negatively towards religions?

    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    How is this not impartial?
    See above.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    I'm black and would hate to see this change.
    So, I'm white, you want a medal?
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    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    It was an interesting excersise in debunking statistics. It shows what most sensible need to know that you can't just trust statistics, the video makes out with tiny little sources that it's legitimate and as we've already on this site alot of "reasonable" people will swallow every single "fact" from it whole.

    Since when did it have to achieve anything anyway? What did Planet Earth achieve? What does the news achieve? What does the Today programme achieve? I'm pretty sure all of those shows are integral to the license fee.

    I can't believe people would complain about this being a misuse of the license fee (the stock argument when the BBC does something to irritate conservatives) when anyone could watch BBC Three and realise what more expensive rubbish it goes on.
    Why did they have to use a video showing Muslims / Islamification in a bad light to demonstrate that you can't trust statistics...?
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    (Original post by KvBhasgotabigwilly)
    So, I'm white, you want a medal?
    Oh yes please, a nice big shiny important looking one, plus it has to cost a lot of money. Oh and you need to organize a medal ceremony and a decent after party .
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    (Original post by Avada Kedavra)
    The views are irrelevant, considering videos with toddlers giggling receive more views than the video in question, that logic is also flawed as the BBC website didn't 'debunk' Fitna to this extent, which received much more attention. This video is also quite insignificant, as there's been no major reporting in relation to the video and the BBC have just provided it with more attention.

    Why is so much time, effort and money being invested into 'debunking' a video in regards to Muslim demographics? The BBC is notorious for implementing affirmative action in regards to Muslims. Surely a organisation which is supposed to be impartial and represent the views of all its demographics would also 'debunk' other videos targeted negatively towards religions?

    See above.
    The views in the video are not irrelevant, Islamification is a big issue at the moment therefore making anything about it mildly relevant.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ss/default.stm

    That is the website for the excellent programme that this was originally featured on. As you can see they are a programme all about statistics, whether that's discussing, debunking or using them. They've debunked tonnes of reports, videos and speeches including figures about MPs expenses, reports on the link between alcohol and cancer and another report on sustainable energy as well as debunking some figures behind drug legalisation. Infact I often find my liberal views being a bit challenged by this programme.

    If the show was a Panorama special totally dedicated to this one video then I could understand why you would see that as being excessive and maybe even unfair but this was, in reality a 15 minute segment on an obscure Radio 4 programme on about lunchtime and an article on the BBC's Magazine section. Much more time, effort and money is spent on other, more controversial things.

    Also 'Muslim affirmative action', say what? What has the BBC got to do with Muslim affirmative action?

    (Original post by PGtips92)
    Why did they have to use a video showing Muslims / Islamification in a bad light to demonstrate that you can't trust statistics...?
    It was part of a whole series, just one of about 30 pieces that have been on the show covering things from drug legalisation to national debt. I expect they chose it because it was an easy, interesting and relevant target. The show goes back years and years so it's choice for one programme is hardly representative of it's general demenour.
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    ok before all of you begin to panic use ur logic for a second - most of the the 2nd and 3rd generation of muslim immigrants are much much less religious and after 5 or 6 generations most of these immigrants would largrly integrate into british sociaty and few of those generations will follow islam or take it seriously.

    there will only be a decline of caucasian race in europe.

    however it is still worrying tht they want to impliment sharia law and build a huge mosque in central London. but over the past few years immigration law in britian has become much stricter.

    i aint pro islam in any sense but i try to use more logic rather than just panic
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    Oh yes please, a nice big shiny important looking one, plus it has to cost a lot of money. Oh and you need to organize a medal ceremony and a decent after party .
    Any requests for the party playlist sir?
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    (Original post by KvBhasgotabigwilly)
    Any requests for the party playlist sir?
    Zadok the priest
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    Lol hardly 'debunking'. They just attck the statistics in the most unconvincing and unconstructive ways possible, some of the attacks are so nonsensicle and beside the point it is almost laughable. Why the BBC needs to spend tax payer money doing this sort of pointless thing, which teaches nothing and doesn't show any sort of finese or otherwise interesting 'debunking' of what is said. Just annother back hander to their friends in the Labour party.

    Edit: This also reminds me of the ERHCs' statistical fiddling they used to 'debunk' the common concept that immigrants are allocated housing more than natives. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...efeat-the-bnp/
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    Hmm, i'm just questioning bits of the BBC vid as we go on:

    The rising fertility rates it mentions at the start ARE in a large part the result of due to immigrants having greater kids. This applies to muslims as well as non muslims, but while this might not be totally true in europe, Muslims in India are rising fast (20% by the 2040s i think? Up from 10% at partition), and they ARE going to become more significant in Europe, that is undeniable.

    Age specific fertility rates? Demographers can accurately forecast how populations will change based on CURRENT trends which the (biased, religious, and bigoted) youtube vid does.

    Then it goes onto suggest that immigrants' population trends reduces and moves in line with the native population growth rate over time.

    While this is true for most immigrant families, from Italians going to the US to Indians going to the UK, it is certainly not the case for Muslims, who have many many children.

    The youtube vid is a bit silly appealing to the notions that the "eeevil muuslims" have infiltrated even that great bastion of communism, Russia (which many ignorant americans will see it as), and i totally agree with the BBC vids point about that. The claim about 40% of the Russian army being muslim; if anything this is a good thing as it shows loyalty to the state being greater than loyalty to religion (which is not true for many or most muslim minorities). And even so, as the guy says, "complete poppycock". That point made on the youtube vid was a bit silly!

    The youtube Video treats Islam as a bad thing, which i agree with. Religions are bad and Islam is as bad as they get. But i see there being two solutions to the problem of religion that is really epitomized by Islam:

    a) Encourage liberalist attitudes on Islamic immigrants and their children (do not let them segregate, do not allow them religious rights such as the Burkha, do not allow religious schools, do not let them speak hate speech at jews and condemn people when they criticize such hate speech, or allow total free speech and allow them to be cricitized and ridiculed instead of "allowed their viewpoint" etc etc). Ie, do not condome backwardness. The French government has done this and French Muslims are far more liberal than British ones. The German government has also done this to a smaller extent (with their harsher hate speech laws, which i don't agree with, being a free speech supporter on all but the most extreme counts (eg, endangering the lives of others, handing out personal details, etc)), and German muslims are more liberal than their British counterparts.

    b) Stop muslims coming over to Europe, send them back to their countries of origin etc etc etc (the BNP argument) which i'm not for because it's untenable and unfair and not exactly a liberal or humanitarian thing to do :rolleyes: This doesn't help anybody, is impossible in political terms and will obviously encounter massive worldwide opposition!

    It is interesting to note that the Islamic fertility rate IS declining faster than the rest of the worlds as some countries (a minority of Islamic countries) DO become more economically active and successful, but the islamic population of the world IS rising and will continue to do so in relation to the others for the considerable future.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    Hmm, i'm just questioning bits of the BBC vid as we go on:

    The rising fertility rates it mentions at the start ARE in a large part the result of due to immigrants having greater kids. This applies to muslims as well as non muslims, but while this might not be totally true in europe, Muslims in India are rising fast (20% by the 2040s i think? Up from 10% at partition), and they ARE going to become more significant in Europe, that is undeniable.

    Age specific fertility rates? Demographers can accurately forecast how populations will change based on CURRENT trends which the (biased, religious, and bigoted) youtube vid does.

    Then it goes onto suggest that immigrants' population trends reduces and moves in line with the native population growth rate over time.

    While this is true for most immigrant families, from Italians going to the US to Indians going to the UK, it is certainly not the case for Muslims, who have many many children.

    The youtube vid is a bit silly appealing to the notions that the "eeevil muuslims" have infiltrated even that great bastion of communism, Russia (which many ignorant americans will see it as), and i totally agree with the BBC vids point about that. The claim about 40% of the Russian army being muslim; if anything this is a good thing as it shows loyalty to the state being greater than loyalty to religion (which is not true for many or most muslim minorities). And even so, as the guy says, "complete poppycock". That point made on the youtube vid was a bit silly!

    The youtube Video treats Islam as a bad thing, which i agree with. Religions are bad and Islam is as bad as they get. But i see there being two solutions to the problem of religion that is really epitomized by Islam:

    a) Encourage liberalist attitudes on Islamic immigrants and their children (do not let them segregate, do not allow them religious rights such as the Burkha, do not allow religious schools, do not let them speak hate speech at jews and condemn people when they criticize such hate speech, or allow total free speech and allow them to be cricitized and ridiculed instead of "allowed their viewpoint" etc etc). Ie, do not condome backwardness. The French government has done this and French Muslims are far more liberal than British ones. The German government has also done this to a smaller extent (with their harsher hate speech laws, which i don't agree with, being a free speech supporter on all but the most extreme counts (eg, endangering the lives of others, handing out personal details, etc)), and German muslims are more liberal than their British counterparts.

    b) Stop muslims coming over to Europe, send them back to their countries of origin etc etc etc (the BNP argument) which i'm not for because it's untenable and unfair and not exactly a liberal or humanitarian thing to do :rolleyes: This doesn't help anybody, is impossible in political terms and will obviously encounter massive worldwide opposition!

    It is interesting to note that the Islamic fertility rate IS declining faster than the rest of the worlds as some countries (a minority of Islamic countries) DO become more economically active and successful, but the islamic population of the world IS rising and will continue to do so in relation to the others for the considerable future.
    Just out of interest, what would you propose if a) doesn't work? (i.e. for all the encouraging of liberalist attitudes within Islam that we do, what if Muslim attitudes / views fails to actually liberalise across generations?). Then what?
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    (Original post by PGtips92)
    Just out of interest, what would you propose if a) doesn't work? (i.e. for all the encouraging of liberalist attitudes within Islam that we do, what if Muslim attitudes / views fails to actually liberalise across generations?). Then what?
    Hmm. I don't think it won't work.

    But if i guess if it doesn't work, then there'll have to be a global boycott of Islamic countries? I don't know, i've seen some extreme righty proposals ranging from a holocaust to sending all muslims to their countries of origin and refusing Muslim immigration, but i've dismissed it because i believe that a CAN work! Islamic attitudes are stronger where Islam is treated with respect; the same applies to any religion. So stop treating religious attitudes with respect, not just for Islam but across the board and they'll dissipate, just as they did with Christianity before the rise of silly postmodernism.
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    (Original post by Lefty Leo)
    Hmm. I don't think it won't work.

    But if i guess if it doesn't work, then there'll have to be a global boycott of Islamic countries? I don't know, i've seen some extreme righty proposals ranging from a holocaust to sending all muslims to their countries of origin and refusing Muslim immigration, but i've dismissed it because i believe that a CAN work! Islamic attitudes are stronger where Islam is treated with respect; the same applies to any religion.
    I think it it can work, and I hope it does work. But what do you think when you see Muslims on TSR (the younger generation, don't forget) where the predominat view (on Ask a Muslim, and other threads) is:
    - Apostates should be executed in Islam
    - Homosexuality would be banned
    - Pre marital / extra marital sex punishable by death
    - Churches shouldn't be built in Muslim lands but Mosques should be built on Christian lands (because "you wouldn't employ a maths teacher who told you 2+2=5, you'd employ the one who tells you 2+2=4"... i.e. because Islam is the one true religion...)
    - etc
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    (Original post by PGtips92)
    I think it it can work, and I hope it does work. But what do you think when you see Muslims on TSR (the younger generation, don't forget) where the predominat view (on Ask a Muslim, and other threads) is:
    - Apostates should be executed in Islam
    - Homosexuality would be banned
    - Pre marital / extra marital sex punishable by death
    - Churches shouldn't be built in Muslim lands but Mosques should be built on Christian lands (because "you wouldn't employ a maths teacher who told you 2+2=5, you'd employ the one who tells you 2+2=4"... i.e. because Islam is the one true religion...)
    - etc
    Make them sign articles promising their loyalty to a secularized state before any religion or outside country or ask them to leave?

    I really don't know. Said proposal above would be an infringement of rights (usually undertaken during wartime when said rights are temporarily suspended). I guess the most we can do is hope for the best and try and convince tem otherwise. I firmly believe that no matter how wrong, somebody can believe anything if they don't harm or affect anybody else. As soon as they infringe on this line, they should be punished! But this argument could apply to polluters or vandals as much as religious bigots.

    The most important thing is secularizing education, promoting scientific empirical values and logical thought and refusing to respect religion. Religion relies on respect (whether garnered through force or propaganda) to survive. You have to realise that the younger generation are a result of bad policy in the past, where religion HAS been respected and thus they've come out with these extremist views which have been respected, haven't been criticized and so they haven't reconsidered their position before they've reached the age where they've solidifed their viewpoint.
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    What I loathe is that most muslims are sceptic about MY culture - what is supposedly 'my' culture, of clothes, of drinking, of porn - but they partake in it themselves.
 
 
 
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