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Which religious state would you most like to live under? watch

  • View Poll Results: Which religious state would you most like to live under?
    Christian
    71
    36.04%
    Voodoo
    4
    2.03%
    Islamic
    23
    11.68%
    Jewish
    4
    2.03%
    Hindu
    5
    2.54%
    Rastafarian
    11
    5.58%
    Baha'i
    3
    1.52%
    Zoroastrian
    1
    0.51%
    Buddhist
    58
    29.44%
    Taoist
    2
    1.02%
    Wiccan
    15
    7.61%

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    christian.
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    Christian
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    Christian, because I imagine that'd lead to the least amount of ridiculous laws forcing me to do crud (although, if that were in fact the case, I image Rastafarianism would be decent enough, as they don't really seem the sort to force their religion upon others)
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    Islamic. Provided it was under a rightful and true leader, so therefore Islamic Law could actually be implemented properly. Which it isn't anywhere
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    (Original post by ChemistryIsMyKryptonite)
    Islamic. Provided it was under a rightful and true leader, so therefore Islamic Law could actually be implemented properly. Which it isn't anywhere
    Then don't you think a religion based more on general and vague philosophy rather than rules is better; so the situation can't arise where the rules become based more and more on self interest and less and less on the philosophy of the religion?

    I'm not criticising Islam here, I'm criticising the fact it can be misrepresented more easily than something like Buddhism.
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    People saying Islamic. Do you really think countries like Saudi implement them as they should be? Correct me if i'm wrong, but people can become corrupt, just because your a muslim doesn't mean you can't also become corrupt too. People with power often leads to bad things and i'm sure its happening to judges in saudi thus misuse the law.
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    Then don't you think a religion based more on general and vague philosophy rather than rules is better; so the situation can't arise where the rules become based more and more on self interest and less and less on the philosophy of the religion?

    I'm not criticising Islam here, I'm criticising the fact it can be misrepresented more easily than something like Buddhism.
    The problem then, is, where do you get the law from? If Islam had been a religion with vague philosophy, chances are the punishments, and culture, of the pre-Islamic arabs would have still remained. And we all know there was some bad, baaaaaad stuff back then. Like, yanno, laws that treated women as fiftieth-class citizens.

    Besides, as a Muslim, I believe Islamic Law - as I said, implemented properly - is how God wants us to live. A general and vague philosophy couldn't set down laws and rules A religion of vague & general philosophy is fine for individual worship...but Islam also seeks to govern the people =]

    Life's a test...perhaps it was the test of those who corrupted Sharia was to err...not corrupt it? =D

    I'm tired (played basketball for a couple of hours + not that much sleep) so if my post ain't making sense, sorry. Toodloo.
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    (Original post by motiv3)
    People saying Islamic. Do you really think countries like Saudi implement them as they should be? Correct me if i'm wrong, but people can become corrupt, just because your a muslim doesn't mean you can't also become corrupt too. People with power often leads to bad things and i'm sure its happening to judges in saudi thus misuse the law.
    Saudi Arabia is, I think, far from true Sharia. I'd say Iran is closer, but it still has problems.

    You're right, it's because people become corrupt that Sharia has been corrupted.
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    Do you mean culturally or theologically?
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    Buddhist. Wouldn't have to pretend I believe in god.
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    Christian....that thing about Buddhists not liking disabled people is a bit harsh
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    Buddhism without a doubt.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Do you mean culturally or theologically?
    Presumably whatever you could see affecting you in living in such a state.
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    (Original post by n1r4v)
    Islamic state is in third place I wonder who voted for them
    I dare say Muslims. :curious:
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    (Original post by n1r4v)
    captain obvious lol
    :smartass:
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    (Original post by ChemistryIsMyKryptonite)
    The problem then, is, where do you get the law from? If Islam had been a religion with vague philosophy, chances are the punishments, and culture, of the pre-Islamic arabs would have still remained. And we all know there was some bad, baaaaaad stuff back then. Like, yanno, laws that treated women as fiftieth-class citizens.

    Besides, as a Muslim, I believe Islamic Law - as I said, implemented properly - is how God wants us to live. A general and vague philosophy couldn't set down laws and rules A religion of vague & general philosophy is fine for individual worship...but Islam also seeks to govern the people =]

    Life's a test...perhaps it was the test of those who corrupted Sharia was to err...not corrupt it? =D

    I'm tired (played basketball for a couple of hours + not that much sleep) so if my post ain't making sense, sorry. Don't worry about criticising Islam, btw. A true Muslim would let you talk and try and answer you rather than saying "YOU CANNNNNNNNOTT TALK INFIDELLLL!!!" /preaching

    Toodloo.
    I have never read the Koran - what are the pure teachings of Islam, what is their great Utopia like, and what must you do to achieve this, and what are the consequences if you fail to follow the rules?
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    if more people knew what bahai was I think it would have more votes..
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    I have never read the Koran - what are the pure teachings of Islam, what is their great Utopia like, and what must you do to achieve this, and what are the consequences if you fail to follow the rules?
    Blimey, I don't think a single post could do all those questions justice! More like a book

    Erm, I'll try and summarise briefly. Going off a historical viewpoint, what Muhammad [p] practiced. Pure teachings are what you'd imagine good values to be - justice, love, mercy, compassion, etc etc. And, despite what some 'Muslim' countries practice, religious freedom. All they had to do was agree to pay a tax (Jizya). This tax wasn't a 'punishment' for being Non-Muslim, more it allowed Non-Muslims to practice their religion freely, and exempted them from the military (at the same time, promising to give them the protection of the Islamic state). There was a case in history under one of the Caliphs who gave Jizya BACK to the Non-Muslims when the Islamic state was invaded, as he couldn't promise to defend them. As far as I'm aware, Jizya was lower than zakat - which was only 2.5%. Compare that to any tax in the modern world! XD The Islamic State would typically use the jizya to improve living conditions, give it to the poor, etc etc.

    If we want to build an Islamic state, then I'd say we have to get rid of all the untrue leaders. But I've got a feeling that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

    Punishment for breaking WHAT rules, exactly? Islam advocates different punishments for different crimes. In situations where you are hurt as a result of what a criminal has done, the Qu'ran essentially teaches that you are allowed to strike back to an equal degree, but forgiveness is better. Islamic punishments where they say things such as "chop off the hand" [thievery], it means in an absolutely perfect society where there is no need to steal. Which is why I said Saudi is far from true Sharia - Saudi has many social problems, yet still enact the punishments. (There's also the matter of Ijtihad. If you want to know more, ask )

    Erm. Not really sure if that's what you wanted, but that's why I discern from your post! Hope that answers you
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    So Muslims believe in an ideal society on earth, and then an afterlife as well? Is there also a 'hell' equivelant, and if so, what acts get you there?

    The ideal society sounds good in theory: obviously I like the notions of justice, love, mercy, compassion etc and even the Jizya sounds fine. But give me more of an impression of HOW they implement the ideals of love, compassion etc - what is a Muslim society really like? What rules do they enforce on people besides Jizya tax?

    And what is the Muslims idea of heaven, what happens there - are there descriptions?

    Don't even bother talking to me about Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim state. I know people abuse religion, and get it totally wrong, I just genuinely want to understand more about the ideology and philosophy of Islam. Whether it can ever actually work politically isn't my main interest right now (though I'm afraid I'm pretty cynical about religion ever working as it was intended to work.)
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    So Muslims believe in an ideal society on earth, and then an afterlife as well? Is there also a 'hell' equivelant, and if so, what acts get you there?

    The ideal society sounds good in theory: obviously I like the notions of justice, love, mercy, compassion etc and even the Jizya sounds fine. But give me more of an impression of HOW they implement the ideals of love, compassion etc - what is a Muslim society really like? What rules do they enforce on people besides Jizya tax?

    And what is the Muslims idea of heaven, what happens there - are there descriptions?

    Don't even bother talking to me about Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim state. I know people abuse religion, and get it totally wrong, I just genuinely want to understand more about the ideology and philosophy of Islam. Whether it can ever actually work politically isn't my main interest right now (though I'm afraid I'm pretty cynical about religion ever working as it was intended to work.)
    Yup to the first There's an afterlife, but Islam is a works-based religion, rather than a purely faith-based one like Christianity. You have to....earn, so to speak, the entrance to heaven, prove yourself to God. There is indeed a hell - "Jahannam", as the Qu'ran calls it. The Qu'ran describes several features about Hell, most notably thorned fruit to eat and boiling water to drink. However, there's a hadith (I think?) where it was stated that there are seven layers of Heaven, and seven layers of Hell - people assume that the Qu'ran describes the worst layer of hell, the seventh. Only Prophets [pbut] and truly pious people will enter the highest level of heaven. Poor people will enter heaven first.

    As for what acts lead you to hell - Islamic viewpoint is that if your "bad" deeds outweigh your "good" deeds on the Day of Judgement, then you go to hell. There are major sins, and minor sins, and minor good deeds, and major good deeds. Sins can be forgiven and good deeds multiplied. Major bad deeds are murder, adultery, etc. So, a person who commits murder and adultery, without repenting before he dies will probably end up in Hell. Truly repenting and abstaining from the sin in future will earn forgiveness - it'll "lighten that side of the scale", so to speak.

    Do you need to be Muslim to get into Heaven? That varies from sect to sect. What I'm stating next about other sects may be wrong. If there's a Muslim of that sect on board, please correct me if I'm wrong. Salafi Muslims (kind of, traditional Muslims of the Sunni creed) would say that ONLY Muslims can enter heaven, Muslims who try their best to shun sins and not engage in innovations. Other Sunnis would say that Christians and Jews would enter heaven based on this verse, Quran 5:69
    Those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
    Although traditional explanation of this verse is that it refers to Christians and Jews BEFORE the advent of Islam.

    Another interesting point to note about Hell in Islam is that it may not be eternal. Most Muslims agree that "bad" Muslims who sinned, didn't fast, didn't pray, etc will burn in hell for a while, but eventually be raised to heaven - kind of a "purgatory" effect. As for Non-Muslims:

    http://www.yuksel.org/e/religion/hell.htm

    This article essentially quotes the Qu'ran and uses the meaning of Arabic words used to more or less say: Hell and it's inhabitants will be annhilated after a period of time. So although Non-Muslims may be sent to hell, it may only be for a fixed time - after which they would cease to exist. Sufi thought is that all the descriptions of hell were metaphorical, and that the harsh descriptions were only indicating the...horror, so to speak, of being seperated from God (there's only heaven and no hell, in that thought). I think, anyways :tongue:

    In Shiite thought [the one I follow ] there's some play on the idea that faith isn't a necessary prerequisite for Heaven:

    http://saanei.org/page.php?pg=showmeeting&id=22&lang=en

    It's somewhere on that page, anyways Although that^ may not be a mainstream viewpoint.

    Heaven - or, "Jannah", as it's called in Islam, has several descriptions in the Qu'ran. It's actually rather physical. An example is Quran 9:72
    Allah hath promised to believers men and women gardens under which rivers flow to dwell therein and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss in the Good Pleasure of Allah: that is the supreme felicity.
    There's many more things described in the Qu'ran - rivers of milk, honey, etc, gardens, palaces, servants, wine that doesn't intoxicate, fruit, etc etc. Some Muslims accept this, and say that heaven will be physical. I prefer the other explanation, that all these descriptions simply show how amazing being with God is. As the Quran says, from God we came and to him we return

    But give me more of an impression of HOW they implement the ideals of love, compassion etc - what is a Muslim society really like? What rules do they enforce on people besides Jizya tax?
    Hmmm. Like I said in my previous post, if a criminal harms you, you're allowed to strike back to an equal degree, but forgiveness is better. Most Muslims would forgive, which shows the compassion of the general public. As for how the government would show these ideals, I'd imagine it'd be through social support - ideally, with Muslims paying zakat, and Non-Muslims Jizya, there would be enough money to support the truly poor. Nobody would starve, or go hungry - which is one of the biggest problems of the modern world. Islam promises a worldwide Caliphate (Islamic Rule) so if we have a true leader (...like, say, Jesus [pbuh] ) then they'll implement everything so that no man, woman or child would go hungry, or be homeless.

    To be honest, I can't really think of any rules that are made law for the people, aside from jizya and zakat. Just the usual like no murder, no thievery, no treason, etc. A big example of the Islamic tolerance of religion is alcohol & religious holidays. I remember reading a while ago - m'fraid I've possibly lost the link - that Non-Muslim majorities in an Islamic state could request a religious holiday (i.e. Sunday for Christians, Christmas, etc). Furthermore, even though Islam prohibits alcohol, Non-Muslims would be allowed to sell it, provided it was allowed in their religion. Non-Muslims could also punish according to their religion, rather than the laws prescribed in Islam. I know I'm giving a lot of examples of religious freedom, but I believe that is where a lot of examples of love, compassion & tolerance from the Islamic state can be found.

    To be honest, don't really understand what you mean by enforced rules. What kind of rules? :\ I have to admit, though, I haven't really read up on how an Islamic State would operate in the modern world. What I've written I've used my limited knowledge for.

    Hope I answered your questions, and if not, sorry! You could always ask a scholar if you need more depth than an 18-year old who's still learning about his religion can provide

    EDIT: Erm, whoever repped me for this, thanks!
 
 
 
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