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    (Original post by Grim_the_Reaper)
    Found this on their site:

    http://www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=70128

    Note how they seem to deny that radical (key word) Islam is as racist and xenophobic like the BNP are.

    They also distort what Cameron says, by saying he's attacking 'muslim community organisations' when he actually says 'radical Islam'.

    Forget the EDL, the UAF seem to be a front organisation for something far more sinister.

    Useful idiots?
    That's probably the most retarded "article" I've ever read.
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    UAF is the result of a government system where you don't have to work to make a living - droves of forigners and freeloaders who are utterly loyal to the socialist government teet and who have nothing but time on their hands to oppose a group which challenges the status quo.
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    I rather like it when Nick Griffin calls the UAF (which, I guess encompasses me in some way) a 'militia'. Little does he realise the rather glorious history of anti-fascist militias he's associating us with.
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    (Original post by Kickflip)
    UAF is the result of a government system where you don't have to work to make a living - droves of forigners and freeloaders who are utterly loyal to the socialist government teet and who have nothing but time on their hands to oppose a group which challenges the status quo.
    I know this is completely off topic, but your sig is very 'interesting'. Correct me if I've got this wrong, but to me those sorts of disgusting comments are quite typical of a lot of young males, and it seems that it's only a problem (Or at least the quote was problematic enough to put in your sig) because he mentioned he was Asian. Just saying, you would have ignored it if he didn't mention his background, wouldn't you? Now, unless there's a tint of bigotry there on your part, I really don't understand the purpose of including that quote in your sig.

    *

    At the end of the day, both UAF and the BNP are both terrible, not necessarily as bad as each other, but you BNP sympathisers should get off your high horse, you're certainly no better than those other thugs.
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    (Original post by crusading)
    Unite against fascism are undemocratic and violent.

    They have shot themselves in the foot time and time again by acting like violent animals at protests, whilst BNP activism goes on peacefully (in fact BNP activities do not need policed, only when the UAF appear).
    Agreed
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    (Original post by UGeNe)
    Fascist.
    You're not doing your cause any good are you?
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    I rather like it when Nick Griffin calls the UAF (which, I guess encompasses me in some way) a 'militia'. Little does he realise the rather glorious history of anti-fascist militias he's associating us with.
    What? You like being associated with nun killing terrorists?
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    What? You like being associated with nun killing terrorists?
    Well, aren't you a broken little record. The vast majority of the anti-fascist militias in Spain didn't go around wantonly killing nuns. Unlike Franco's lot, who pretty much waded through a sea of blood wherever they went..
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    Well, aren't you a broken little record. The vast majority of the anti-fascist militias in Spain didn't go around wantonly killing nuns. Unlike Franco's lot, who pretty much waded through a sea of blood wherever they went..
    "Anti-fascist" militias in the past, you know, had a militia to fight. I don't exactly see Stormtroopers and Blackshirts on Britain's streets. All I see are a bunch of hysteric idiots who do nothing but throw eggs at men in suits and start riots for no reason.
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    The UAF are the scum of the earth. I kinda felt sorry for Griffin when they almost lynched him at his press conference - if his body guards hadn't have been there he would have been beaten to a pulp; worse still, the police stood by! What?!
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    (Original post by Alasdair)
    Well, aren't you a broken little record. The vast majority of the anti-fascist militias in Spain didn't go around wantonly killing nuns. Unlike Franco's lot, who pretty much waded through a sea of blood wherever they went..
    The Red Terror in Spain (Spanish: Terror Rojo en España) is the name given to various acts committed by Spanish Republicans during the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, including desecration and burning monasteries and churches and killing of 6,832[4] members of the Catholic clergy, as well as attacks on landowners, industrialists, and politicians

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_(Spain)
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    The Red Terror in Spain (Spanish: Terror Rojo en España) is the name given to various acts committed by Spanish Republicans during the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, including desecration and burning monasteries and churches and killing of 6,832[4] members of the Catholic clergy, as well as attacks on landowners, industrialists, and politicians

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror_(Spain)

    You need to put this in context. The RC church in Spain was deeply involved in right wing politics e.g. :

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NE-72ZXux-...ist+salute.jpg


    both at the national level as a vocal supporter of Franco and his reactionary predecessors, and at a local level - in cahoots with exploitative landlords and industrialists.

    They were thus hated by large sections of the population.

    When Franco launched his rebellion law and order broke down. Groups and mobs were able to vent their fury at the church.

    To call this a "red" terror is a misnomer. It was maybe a "black" terror as many anarchists were involved. The Communist Party of Spain was resolutely against such hooliganism.

    It was the anti-Fascist militia who eventually restored some semblance of law and order. To blame them for the church burnings would be like blaming the Bolsheviks for the mass slaughter of Jews in the Russian Civil War - that was done by White Guards like Denikin and Kolchak or by hooligan groups led by the likes of Petlura and Makhno.
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    (Original post by juanmodesto)
    You need to put this in context. The RC church in Spain was deeply involved in right wing politics e.g. :

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NE-72ZXux-...ist+salute.jpg


    both at the national level as a vocal supporter of Franco and his reactionary predecessors, and at a local level - in cahoots with exploitative landlords and industrialists.

    They were thus hated by large sections of the population.

    When Franco launched his rebellion law and order broke down. Groups and mobs were able to vent their fury at the church.

    To call this a "red" terror is a misnomer. It was maybe a "black" terror as many anarchists were involved. The Communist Party of Spain was resolutely against such hooliganism.

    It was the anti-Fascist militia who eventually restored some semblance of law and order. To blame them for the church burnings would be like blaming the Bolsheviks for the mass slaughter of Jews in the Russian Civil War - that was done by White Guards like Denikin and Kolchak or by hooligan groups led by the likes of Petlura and Makhno.
    So those involved in right wing politics deserve to die? The Nuns deserved to die?

    It's a good thing Franco won as the communist alternative would have been worse as history shows (the U.S.S.R., Red China).
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    So those involved in right wing politics deserve to die? The Nuns deserved to die?

    It's a good thing Franco won as the communist alternative would have been worse as history shows (the U.S.S.R., Red China).


    1. the Republicans were a mix of influences, from Social Democrats to Radical Anarchists. They were fighting together against dictatorship, not in favour of one ideology.

    2. Native Spanish Communism was Anarchist Communism, not State Communism. A Socialist Spain would have looked nothing like the USSR or Communist China (presuming that they won, Stalin's influence would have fallen as he would no longer have been needed to supply armaments.)

    3. Franco was not a particularly good dictator. He did nothing for Spain's economy, civil society, or influence. He was just a plain old European Autocrat who fought for the establishment. There's not an awful lot to praise about him.
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    (Original post by Bagration)


    1. the Republicans were a mix of influences, from Social Democrats to Radical Anarchists. They were fighting together against dictatorship, not in favour of one ideology.

    2. Native Spanish Communism was Anarchist Communism, not State Communism. A Socialist Spain would have looked nothing like the USSR or Communist China (presuming that they won, Stalin's influence would have fallen as he would no longer have been needed to supply armaments.)

    3. Franco was not a particularly good dictator. He did nothing for Spain's economy, civil society, or influence. He was just a plain old European Autocrat who fought for the establishment. There's not an awful lot to praise about him.
    1) The communists and the anarchists were the strongest groups.

    2) I think it would have been likely that a pro-stalin state could have been created.

    3) There isn't much to condemn him for either. He was the better alternative to a radical leftist state. It isn't like authoritarian conservative regimes were new to Latin Europe, anyway.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    1) The communists and the anarchists were the strongest groups.
    How does Anarchists = Stalinists?

    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    2) I think it would have been likely that a pro-stalin state could have been created.
    How? It was true that Stalin actually served against the interests of the Anarchists who were far stronger than the Stalinists. If the Republicans had won there would have been very little Stalin could have done.

    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    3) There isn't much to condemn him for either. He was the better alternative to a radical leftist state. It isn't like authoritarian conservative regimes were new to Latin Europe, anyway.
    I don't think Franco was a desirable alternative to peaceful anarcho-communists.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    How does Anarchists = Stalinists?

    How? It was true that Stalin actually served against the interests of the Anarchists who were far stronger than the Stalinists. If the Republicans had won there would have been very little Stalin could have done.

    I don't think Franco was a desirable alternative to peaceful anarcho-communists.
    You seem to think that the anarchists were peaceful for some reason?!?

    They were some of the worst offenders.

    HERE is an essay that Drunkhamster posted on the anarchists.

    They were not peaceful but murderer and coercive.
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    What I meant was not an analysis of the way the Anarchists fought the war (which was very much an eye for an eye) but in fact that the sort of regime they intended to create was directly opposite to that of Soviet Russia. Republican Spain would not have become another USSR. It's not so much that I'm pro-Anarchist, it's just that it's simply wrong to state the Anarchists would have created a Stalinist state. And Franco was pretty brutal, too.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    So those involved in right wing politics deserve to die? The Nuns deserved to die?.
    You realize the Catholic Church was involved in the war? We are not talking about friendly C of E vicars, drinking tea and sherry. The church actively opposed democracy in Spain every step of the way. They were particularly vehement in opposing the right of workers to form unions.

    The church was a major land owner and treated its peasantry as serfs.

    After the war Franco became the Pope's number one poster boy. He handed over the education system to the Church lock stock and barrel. He gave the church the right to prohibit the publication of any book it disliked. He suppressed Spanish Protestants and forbade the importation of Protestant Bibles. He helped the Church ferry WWII war criminals like Ante Pavelic and Klaus Barbie out of the Allied hands.

    One catholic priest said of the events - "the anarchist burned our churches, but we murdered the church".
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    (Original post by juanmodesto)
    You realize the Catholic Church was involved in the war? We are not talking about friendly C of E vicars, drinking tea and sherry. The church actively opposed democracy in Spain every step of the way. They were particularly vehement in opposing the right of workers to form unions.

    The church was a major land owner and treated its peasantry as serfs.

    After the war Franco became the Pope's number one poster boy. He handed over the education system to the Church lock stock and barrel. He gave the church the right to prohibit the publication of any book it disliked. He suppressed Spanish Protestants and forbade the importation of Protestant Bibles. He helped the Church ferry WWII war criminals like Ante Pavelic and Klaus Barbie out of the Allied hands.
    First of all, the "democracy" of the radical leftists is not a good thing, so it was good that they opposed that.

    Secondly, of course many in the Church were nationalists but even those who were normal Christians or who were moderate Republicans were attacked as being "fascists". Do you think the fact that thousands of nuns were murdered was a good thing.

    (Original post by juanmodesto)
    One catholic priest said of the events - "the anarchist burned our churches, but we murdered the church".
    Yes, I have heard that quote.

    Franco also saved many Jews from Hitler.
 
 
 
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