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    (Original post by berryripple)
    You do realise that state school teachers can motivate you too?
    I go to a state school at the moment, and I am self motivated. I will probably be switching to a private school for sixth form, and guess what... I still plan to be self motivated. It is possible to be both.
    Well OK, that's you, but for many people success just depends on external influences e.g. who's forcing them to work. Now, an example: Say I get AAB from my state school because of the lax atmosphere and attitudes, Oxford will never consider me (and you'll say, oh, lazy sod didn't deserve it anyway, incapable etc.) However if we won the lottery and I went to a private boarding school where we had to do 2 hours of 'prep' every afternoon and everyone around me was working, and I got AAA, I might get into Oxford. If I did, I would have got in PURELY due to my schooling. This might not be the case for me but - not generalising- it is, for genuinely many people, don't deny it. Now isn't that unfair?
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    (Original post by creak)
    You admit that grammar schools currently are, for the reasons given, effectively free private schools for the middle classes. But why do you think that this situation would be any different if the system was rolled back out across the country? Yes, there'd be more places available, but proportionately the ratio of students to places would be similar, because if they were spread nation-wide there'd be more people able to apply for them. In any case, is it right that thousands of mediocre yet well-trained middle class children gain places in these elite schools, whereas only the brightest and most able of the children from more disadvantaged backgrounds can take their place next to them?

    This in addition to ArtGoblins's points, of course.
    It's more right than what we have at the moment. And anyway, I think you exaggerate how it would all pan out. If it was reintroduced across the whole country, schools would prepare their pupils for the test, so everyone would be prepared.

    At the moment, as grammars are rare, schools will not give help with the tests. Therefore, this favours middle class who can afford tuition. This situtation would change if grammars were properly reintroduced.
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    I would turn the extra grades down. I work to prove myself intelligent x
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    It's unfair, ridiculous and insulting. It assumes all people from poorer backgrounds are stupid. It's all about the person - some people are accademic and work hard - others dont - that applies to rich people as well. If i was from a poor background I would be offended but I'd take advantage of it. If i was from a rich backgroundI'd be find it extreamly unfair that someone with potentially the same academic ability as me was given an easier option.
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    Agreed, I hate this affirmative action/positive discrimination.
    I would detest the idea that I, being an ethnic minority would have a better chance of getting into a great university then some ethnic majority who is smarter than me. Similarly with financial stuff. If I were poor and got into a better university then someone smarter/wealthier than me purely for my financial situation then it'd be terrible because it just promotes inequality and emphasises differences by giving bloody hand-outs to some for something that they cannot control. I lumped in ethnicity with financial situation as I think there was a thread on this the other day about head starts being given due to background.

    I worked ******* hard for my AAA and if some other chump got it for less workl I'd be pissed.

    Also this kind of plan could diminish the quality of Universities.
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    (Original post by Dr Zeuss™)
    i was thinking it would be like that, but that can't possibly be right. they would be handing students AAA on a silver platter through doing little work, when other students would have to have worked hard to get AAA.

    honestly, what imbiciles think up these ideas

    I agree it's stupid and unfair, why is everything based by income?! I had to have a job through college and uni whilst other people used their £30 a week EMA, more than i got from working all Saturday
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    Christ I was under the impression that the people at the top like Lord Mandleson were intelligent. Surely even he can see what a load of nonsense this idea is.
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    (Original post by Marsha2112)
    Well OK, that's you, but for many people success just depends on external influences e.g. who's forcing them to work. Now, an example: Say I get AAB from my state school because of the lax atmosphere and attitudes, Oxford will never consider me (and you'll say, oh, lazy sod didn't deserve it anyway, incapable etc.) However if we won the lottery and I went to a private boarding school where we had to do 2 hours of 'prep' every afternoon and everyone around me was working, and I got AAA, I might get into Oxford. If I did, I would have got in PURELY due to my schooling. This might not be the case for me but - not generalising- it is, for genuinely many people, don't deny it. Now isn't that unfair?
    ********.

    1) You are basing your grades on your school. Surely if you had the self-motivation etc you would do the 2 hours prep work at the state school and get AAA? No? This would probably one of the factors why *you* wouldn't get in, not because of the state school. And anyway, I don't know about Oxford, but Cambridge has the Special Access Scheme for this hypothetical person you are talking about.
    2) Are you stating you need people working around you to get AAA? That's stupid. You should get AAA because you are determined and want to get it.
    3) I'm sorry but this is just utter crap. "If I did [get into Oxford] I would have got in PURELY due to my schooling". FFS, Oxbridge take on pupils with the greatest academic potential and the most suited to their system, IRRESPECTIVE of background - whether that would be financial, social - whatever.
    4) "Oxford will never consider me", because of two factors - your school and the AAB at AS level. ********! What about the PS, reference, admission tests etc. And tbh, if they were unsure, they would have given you an interview to demonstrate your full potential or possibly a higher offer to see if you are *really* capable of Oxford.

    Tbh, it isn't unfair *in this situation* as in the state school thing you had NO self-determination or self-motivation to get AAA. You got AAB because you *accepted* the laid-back attitude, but it you had done something about it, like many other applicants, you would've got AAA.

    This post is so ill-informed.
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    "Aspirations to Poverty"
    I'm going to write a book with that title one day, since it appears to be what our country's mantra...

    What I want to know is what do the poor kids who achieve AAA [or rather A*A*A* these days] through hard work and intelligence get out of the deal since they can't be bumped up? A friend who spent most of their nights out on the lash during study leave in university with them? Because that isn't going to make people angry....
    It purely demeans anything anyone works for.






    I'd also like to comment that anyone who thinks people who go to grammar schools don't work really ought to take off their green glasses.
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    200 hundred replies in 4 hours.

    THIS IS AN OUTRAGE etc etc etc.
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    (Original post by creak)
    Could any of those expressing such 'outrage' at this idea please explain to me exactly what the proposals being made are, and how exactly they will impact on the grades of 'poorer' students? The only mention of a two grade 'head start' is in the opening paragraph, and maybe I'm missing something but there's no more information than that in this article; the rest is horribly vague. So what exactly is it you're all screaming about?

    Thank you - it is important to think about this proposal in detail.

    They are not proposing that poorer students automatically have their grades bumped up, as some people here seem to be suggesting. Instead, grades will be considered in the context in which they are acheived. If a student is outperforming their school average by 60% or more, then they might be able to get a lower offer.

    In practice, what this means is that if a student gets a B at a school where everyone else on average gets a D, that B should be worth at least the same as an A at a school where everyone gets a B (this is just a hypothetical example).

    Surely, it should matter how one is doing in relation to one's circumstances, no?
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    (Original post by klondiker)
    Thank you - it is important to think about this proposal in detail.

    They are not proposing that poorer students automatically have their grades bumped up, as some people here seem to be suggesting. Instead, grades will be considered in the context in which they are acheived. If a student is outperforming their school average by 60% or more, then they might be able to get a lower offer.

    In practice, what this means is that if a student gets a B at a school where everyone else on average gets a D, that B should be worth at least the same as an A at a school where everyone gets a B (this is just a hypothetical example).

    Surely, it should matter how one is doing in relation to one's circumstances, no?
    Tbh, if the new specs and the introduction of the A* is confusing, this just makes it a hell of a lot worse!
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    Bring back grammar schools, maybe tweak the system a little bit, and these problems are pretty much solved. Surely the logical answer to state schools being ***** is to improve the quality of state schools, not just arbitrarily give people there better grades that they haven't earned. It's pure logic as well: if a pupil at a ****** comp got a C but would have got an A elsewhere, then that means they simply haven't been taught the material at all. Hence, even if we rename their grade as an A because they're intelligent, they're still behind everyone else at Oxford even if they're just as intelligent.
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    Don't worry guys - Labour don't have a hope in hell of winning an election for decades to come.
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    this is stoopid.

    but maby its aimed at the working class pupils that get UUUu instead they might get DDDd 210 ucas points. Although it might just be 2 grades per pupil not per As/A level.
    but anyway basically they be able to get into staffordshire university (yes there are some course for under 210 ucas points) by doing **** all.

    thats just retarded.
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    (Original post by The Muon)
    Well I'm in two minds about this. The majority of me thinks that your uni entrance should have no bearing on your circumstances and it should purely be based on academic merit. There is a little niggle though that people from lesser schools are at a bit of a disadvantage to someone who pays a fortune for the best education from the best teacher. Most people will learn more if it is a small class and they get lots of extra help rather than being at the back of a 9-5 college that does no extra classes.

    I agree up to a point. For example, private school pupils and those with enough money to afford every revision guide going and private tuition outside of school have an obvious advantage and are therefore more likely to get higher grades. However, this 'grade boost' nonsense isnt the way to go.

    Surely when a university receives its applications and is asking for AAA, it should look at the backgrounds of the students and realise that a student from a private school who achieved AAA is not necessarily any more intelligent than a student from a comprehensive who achieved AAB. Its common sense. They could look at the difference in UCAS points and even if there is a reasonable difference between the two, the universities should be able to figure out that the private school pupil most likely had an easier time getting such grades.

    Another problem is that you find 'working class' kids at grammar schools, which already shows their ability to achieve their potential. At the same time you see working class kids who went to the same schools, both had the same oppotunities yet one might achieve BBB and the other DEU - its not about money or background then, is it? It's fairly obvious who should be entitled to that uni place. If you bump up kids' grades it will only disadvantage them, being let into universities on courses that they could never have even met the minimum entry requirements for before the grade bumping and struggling to get a 2:2 or Third.

    I also want to point out that today's definition of 'working class' is very blurred anyway. I know students from a single parent family with an income of less than £20,000 who have lived a much more luxurious life than mine with parents who earn over £20,000.

    Additionally, I have studied at both a grammar school and local government funded further education college. Suprisingly enough, I found the college teaching superior and I achieved better grades there. Granted, I was studying on a fee paying evening course full of adults, however the same teachers teach during the day to the day time students, mainly made up of working class kids. Make of this what you will.
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    W.T.F.

    this makes me fairly livid...
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    I go to a grammar school. One of my friends is very very poor. Shes managed to achive [predicted] ABB.
    120 students out of the 130 there are going, hopefully to uni this year, and their IS a very wide range of incomes.
    If your pooor, it doesnt affect your ability to learn. This story made me sick, its all about giving thr poor more chance, why should we reward the benifit frauds just so thie kids can go to uni, hmm, people who work so hard for thie grades, and I know im gonna be gettting BCC at the max, and i dont even get the stupid grants to go to uni! -.- so they are saying if your poor and thicck, you should get a place over someone who is rich and clever? hmm thats great thinking by the labour GOv... I can see a lot of students predicted A*a*a* [next year] not going out of protest... it is distgusting. utterly. I cant think of the words to describe it.
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    (Original post by FyreFight)
    Don't worry guys - Labour don't have a hope in hell of winning an election for decades to come.
    But:

    Will Cameron mean what he says about "Education, education, education", or is just using that to be PM?

    and

    Why do people still vote Labour if it's so bad?

    in conjunction

    Why do people say something like "you haven't experienced the Conservatives, so I will always vote Labour"

    so

    What's so bad about the Tories?
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    What about those of us who have better off parents ie middle class yet went to a school/college that is considered to be in a deprived area?? Will we be penalised for going to the same school as someone else??
 
 
 
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