Turn on thread page Beta

Poorer students to get two grade "head start"! watch

Announcements
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Natasha_c)
    Do you not think your teachers did anything then? Do you really think it would have been just as easy if you had to teach yourself?
    in my experience good teaching makes a massive difference, and if your from a poorer background you much less likely to recieve that.
    So bring back grammar schools so bright poor kids have a better chance of getting some good teaching!
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anony mouse)
    Except that this proposed system really is an emblematic Socialist idea, whereas Libertarians have never avowed to support either greed or selfishness, which is purely a myth created by Socialists to undermine support for Libertarianism.
    Oh, well if it's emblematic, that's fair enough.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by George231086)
    You've missed the point. If your teachers tell you what to write to achieve top grades, force you to do lots of homeworks, realise that you're going to get a C and so focus time on you afterschool to an A etc etc, you are likely to do well. If on the other hand your teachers only go over the basic work, rarely set homework and are satisfied if you are going to achieve a C, then you may not do so well.

    Of course you can still do well if you do it yourself, but going to a grammar or private school is a huge advantage. I've witnessed grammar school teaching and college teaching, the people that get high grades at college put in more work in my oppinion. They have to.
    Grades aren't awarded on how hard you've worked to get where you are; they're awarded on how good your academic coursework and exam scripts are. Anything (like this proposal) which changes that changes the very definition of what an A-Level grade is.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BigDave56)
    Decent state schools in the first place is the answer. Bring back Grammer schools and improve comps.
    Exactly.
    Offline

    13
    (Original post by philjw)
    So bring back grammar schools so bright poor kids have a better chance of getting some good teaching!
    You know!

    But bloody Labour won't do it because they think the comprehensive system is so good due to "grade inflation". No it isn't!

    So glad they won't be running the country this time next year, providing there's a general election in May 2010.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    It's the opposite of assuming working-class people are 'thick'. The scheme recognises that in the current system, grades aren't awarded based on someone's natural ability, but from their background. I'm interested in the 'sociological crap' you could bring in to support your argument, as most sociological studies in this area show that working-class children are disadvantaged by the education system, and would actually support these measures.
    there are two strands to this debate though:

    the first is that students are structurally disadvantaged by going to the worst performing schools, or coming from a family environment which does not nurture their natural ability.

    however, the second strand is, once at university, there will be certain expectations on ability, workload, etc.

    this would necessitate some kind of bridging course, to bring the well-performing-disadvantaged-person up to the standards of their peers on the degree. dumping a person into a very intense degree, when they have not been equiped with the skills to do that degree is downright cruel and unfair, no matter what their natural ability is.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by philjw)
    *** hoc ergo propter hoc? Is that what you're suggesting - that people get higher grades because they have rich parents?
    It's not the only factor, and it's not a direct cause, obviously. But you can't deny that the wealth of a student's parents is an important part in their success/'failure' in the education system. Anyway, you didn't answer my question - how do you explain the gap in attainment? Do you think that middle-class people are more intelligentthat working-class people?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by philjw)
    Grades aren't awarded on how hard you've worked to get where you are; they're awarded on how good your academic coursework and exam scripts are. Anything (like this proposal) which changes that changes the very definition of what an A-Level grade is.
    I'm aware of that, i disagree with the idea in the article. I'd vote for improving schools in general and increasing selection. My point was that going to a grammar, private or good state school is a large advantage. From experience i can attest to the fact that good schools get good grades, not necessarily because the pupils are incredibly smart but sometimes purely due to being spoonfed (not all people). I honestly think a student that would fail all of their exams at a bad school, would be able to achieve atleast c's in private school. Also one that got b/c's in a bad school would probably be hitting a's in a private school.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by philjw)
    So bring back grammar schools so bright poor kids have a better chance of getting some good teaching!
    It seems much more unfair to me to say if you fail a test at 11/12 you're given a rough education and less chance of acheiving later. Peoples abilities change massive within that age range and so many people do badly/ average early on but peak at GCSE or Alevel.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    That's quite disgusting tbh. It's free to go to school and college so wtf has money got to do with it?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    It's not the only factor, and it's not a direct cause, obviously. But you can't deny that the wealth of a student's parents is an important part in their success/'failure' in the education system. Anyway, you didn't answer my question - how do you explain the gap in attainment? Do you think that middle-class people are more [I]intelligent[/I that working-class people?
    They're probably not any different in terms of IQ distribution, if that's what you mean. But they are better educated than working-class people, through a combination of better schools, paying more attention at school (culturally, it's true - admit it!) and parental expectations and support. None of those things will be changed a single jot by pretending that a working-class kid with ABB is academically the equal of a middle-class kid with AAA and shoving him into Oxbridge.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by Anony mouse)
    I am not surprised. This is the mentality of socialism.
    NO. IT. IS. NOT.

    this is actually very right-wing compared with what communism suggests. this scheme still maintains the same class structure, the same concentration of wealth, the same educational disadvantage for the masses, rather than evening the playing field for everyone.

    this is a means of pretending that something is being done about the glass ceiling, whilst still leaving it intact.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Natasha_c)
    It seems much more unfair to me to say if you fail a test at 11/12 you're given a rough education and less chance of acheiving later. Peoples abilities change massive within that age range and so many people do badly/ average early on but peak at GCSE or Alevel.
    I'd rather give some people the chance to go to grammar schools and so have some benefit overall than deny the chance to everyone and only allow private school children the advantage. It isn't perfect, but i think the net result is good. Along with grammar schools time would be spent improving comprehensives.
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by im so academic)
    You know!

    But bloody Labour won't do it because they think the comprehensive system is so good due to "grade inflation". No it isn't!
    and i can tell you now, a-levels and gcses have actually got easier in the past ten years. or maybe i've got older. lol

    So glad they won't be running the country this time next year, providing there's a general election in May 2010.
    hmn. i'm no fan of labour, but the tories? really?
    i lived through the 1980s, trust me, you wouldn't like it.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Natasha_c)
    It seems much more unfair to me to say if you fail a test at 11/12 you're given a rough education and less chance of acheiving later. Peoples abilities change massive within that age range and so many people do badly/ average early on but peak at GCSE or Alevel.
    It seems a bit unfair to me to refuse to let a 22-year-old with 35% in their finals practice medicine... after all some people peak academically at age 35...

    You've got to have some kind of selection process to have a grammar school, university or anything like that! What we need to do is stop pretending that everyone needs to go to university or have an academically-oriented education. Some people will do well at a Grammar school, sixth-form and university; some people will do well given a technical education and an apprenticeship. Not everyone needs or is suited to doing a degree and we should recognise this!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    WTF.

    If they want poor students to do better then they should increase teachers pay and bring back gramma school's.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Interesting.

    I am in favour. I'd like to see this happen, to see what would happen.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    In his latest act of positive discrimination, Lord Mandelson today proposed all Caucasian runners be given a thirty second head start in the 2012 Olympic Games.

    He was quoted as saying "This is just the latest idea in New Labour's desperate headline-grabbing manifesto to level out broken Britain's molehill-ridden playing field. We all know a fat Scottish bloke has got no chance against a Kenyan over five thousand metres. We propose to fix that, without requiring the Scottish bloke to go on a trauma-inducing diet for health and safety reasons."

    In other news, Freddie Flintoff has today been implanted with the legs of a cheetah, if England are to have any chance of winning the final test.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by philjw)
    It seems a bit unfair to me to refuse to let a 22-year-old with 35% in their finals practice medicine... after all some people peak academically at age 35...

    You've got to have some kind of selection process to have a grammar school, university or anything like that! What we need to do is stop pretending that everyone needs to go to university or have an academically-oriented education. Some people will do well at a Grammar school, sixth-form and university; some people will do well given a technical education and an apprenticeship. Not everyone needs or is suited to doing a degree and we should recognise this!
    Your example's a bit different to a child whos brain is still developing. I dont think you can tell weather a child will do well acedemically later in life.

    But I do agree that not everyone should go to university, some peoples skills just lie in other areas, but I think potential should be favoured in selection like the system is trying to do.
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    Ugh. Why don't they just bring back grammar schools? Then, students from poorer backgrounds could succeed on their own intelligence. This idea just assumes all more wealthy students would have done worse if they were from poorer backgrounds, which isn't really fair.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: August 13, 2009
Poll
Do you think parents should charge rent?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.