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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    What is wrong with you? You wish for peaceful academics to die just because you disagree with them?

    David Friedman isn't even influential.
    Friedman *cough* implemented *cough* a dictatorship *cough* in Chile *cough* forcing out *cough* the socialist *cough* Allende *cough*
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    (Original post by tomheppy)
    Friedman *cough* implemented *cough* a dictatorship *cough* in Chile *cough* forcing out *cough* the socialist *cough* Allende *cough*

    :rofl2: Lol, someones been taking Naomi Klein seriously:rofl2:. Friedman spent five days on a lecture tour in Chille, that included meeting Pinochet once, for an hour over lunch, and writing him a letter advising him to end the hyperinflation... To say he implemented a dictatorship in Chile, reveals your incredible lack of knowledge.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    :rofl2: Lol, someones been taking Naomi Klein seriously:rofl2:. Friedman spent five days on a lecture tour in Chille, that included meeting Pinochet once, for an hour over lunch, and writing him a letter advising him to end the hyperinflation... To say he implemented a dictatorship in Chile, reveals your incredible lack of knowledge.
    Supporting any dictator in any way makes you responsible for that dictatorship.
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    (Original post by tomheppy)
    Supporting any dictator in any way makes you responsible for that dictatorship.


    So by paying your taxes and voting for our Government, you are indirectly supporting The dictatorships in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    So by paying your taxes and voting for our Government, you are indirectly supporting The dictatorships in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?
    yes though less responsible than our government.
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    (Original post by tomheppy)
    Friedman *cough* implemented *cough* a dictatorship *cough* in Chile *cough* forcing out *cough* the socialist *cough* Allende *cough*
    No, he didn't.

    And anyway that still doesn't explain why you want David Friedman to die.
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    another evil 'anarcho'-capitalist
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    :rofl2: Lol, someones been taking Naomi Klein seriously:rofl2:. Friedman spent five days on a lecture tour in Chille, that included meeting Pinochet once, for an hour over lunch, and writing him a letter advising him to end the hyperinflation... To say he implemented a dictatorship in Chile, reveals your incredible lack of knowledge.
    That's a familiar looking post!
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    (Original post by Richard_A_Garner)
    That's a familiar looking post!

    :ninja: No it isn't :ninja:
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    (Original post by tomheppy)
    another evil 'anarcho'-capitalist
    He disagrees with you and therefore deserves to die?

    I guess you don't care for long held tradition of freedom of expression.
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    (Original post by Captain Crash)
    By that measure, you'd expect to see employers caring for their employees when there is no government intervention. If we look at, say, the Victorian era we can see that this is obviously not the case (with the exception of a few individuals e.g. Titus Salt).

    Empirically, there is no evidence to suggest what you're claiming.
    You are correct, and even cases like Titus Salt are not attractive (unless you like nuts riding through the town and cutting down washing lines because he finds them "unsightly," and banning alcohol in the town). Instead, workers organised their own welfare, through the Friendly Societies, relied on neighbours. Of course, people on average contributed ten times as much in charity than they do now, netting a sum total that exceded the income of some European countries.
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    (Original post by Captain Crash)
    By that measure, you'd expect to see employers caring for their employees when there is no government intervention. If we look at, say, the Victorian era we can see that this is obviously not the case (with the exception of a few individuals e.g. Titus Salt).

    Empirically, there is no evidence to suggest what you're claiming.
    I don't think it's particularly controversial that there was a lot more charity (proportionate to the total amount of wealth) then than now. The Victorians had a near-universal schooling system before it was nationalised and friendly societies providing incapacity and unemployment insurance and pensions. You don't exactly see this kind of thing these days.

    (Original post by tomheppy)
    Friedman *cough* implemented *cough* a dictatorship *cough* in Chile *cough* forcing out *cough* the socialist *cough* Allende *cough*
    You're an idiot.
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    Milton Friedman's real connection with the Chile regime was the so-called Chicago Boys. Some Chilean economists were trained at the University of Chicago where Friedman was a professor of Economics. After their "training" they returned back to Chile where they held high-profile economic "chairs" and they subsequently kind of implemented Friedman's economic vision of "laissez faire". Hence, the Chilean economy is like the 13th most free in the world (certainly the most free in Latin America) and if I am correct, the most advanced in Latin America (or the 2nd most advanced).

    Now regarding Pinochet himself, I don't think he had any real connection other than a meeting or a talk or something. He (Friedman) wouldn't risk his public image of the freedom fighter just to enter into "business" with Pinochet. Remember, he wasn't just an influential economist like Keynes or Hayek. He was a celebrity in the US. Probably more well-known than most directors of Hollywood

    Oh and David Friedman is influential. The mere fact that his father was Milton, makes him influential in the States. Americans "swoon" at the sight of him!
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    (Original post by emvard)
    Milton Friedman's real connection with the Chile regime was the so-called Chicago Boys. Some Chilean economists were trained at the University of Chicago where Friedman was a professor of Economics. After their "training" they returned back to Chile where they held high-profile economic "chairs" and they subsequently kind of implemented Friedman's economic vision of "laissez faire". Hence, the Chilean economy is like the 13th most free in the world (certainly the most free in Latin America) and if I am correct, the most advanced in Latin America (or the 2nd most advanced).

    Now regarding Pinochet himself, I don't think he had any real connection other than a meeting or a talk or something. He (Friedman) wouldn't risk his public image of the freedom fighter just to enter into "business" with Pinochet. Remember, he wasn't just an influential economist like Keynes or Hayek. He was a celebrity in the US. Probably more well-known than most directors of Hollywood

    Oh and David Friedman is influential. The mere fact that his father was Milton, makes him influential in the States. Americans "swoon" at the sight of him!
    I know what an economic chair is, but what is an economic "chair"?

    Edit: I've met David Friedman personally, and, much as I love the guy, I think you're giving him a bit too much credit if you think the mere sight of him will make Americans swoon (or even "swoon" ).
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    (Original post by DrunkHamster)
    I know what an economic chair is, but what is an economic "chair"?

    Edit: I've met David Friedman personally, and, much as I love the guy, I think you're giving him a bit too much credit if you think the mere sight of him will make Americans swoon (or even "swoon" ).
    Well, as far as I am concerned, an economic chair would be an academic position at an institution of higher education whereas an economics "chair" would be any high-profile position in the government or any non-academic institution that exerts economic influence. So most of the Chicago boys were not academics. That's why I said "chairs". They were mostly ministers.

    By the way, I have too met the great David Friedman. And believe me the crowd was really going crazy... I have been to some of his lectures and the great bulk of the people who are cheering for him were Americans. I also sympathized with his views but I never thought about cheering for an academic. Not that I would cheer for anyone (probably for Bertrand Russell) but whatever. It was just weird to me
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    (Original post by emvard)
    By the way, I have too met the great David Friedman. And believe me the crowd was really going crazy... I have been to some of his lectures and the great bulk of the people who are cheering for him were Americans. I also sympathized with his views but I never thought about cheering for an academic. Not that I would cheer for anyone (probably for Bertrand Russell) but whatever. It was just weird to me
    What was the context, out of interest? Much as I wish DF was influential, I can't see a single way in which any of his ideas have been taken up or even considered mainstream in American political discourse.
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    (Original post by DrunkHamster)
    What was the context, out of interest? Much as I wish DF was influential, I can't see a single way in which any of his ideas have been taken up or even considered mainstream in American political discourse.
    Oh yes you are quite right. I should have specified that I am talking about anarcho-capitalist, austrian and generally libertarian circles (right-libertarian). By no means are David Friedman's views considered mainstream in the US (not yet). What I was really reffering to was his influence among AMERICAN libertarians as opposed to ... say European libertarians. Americans really consider him a god of some sort. I have spoken to Dutch libertarians and French libertarians and none of them were as "excited" as the Americans. It's not nationalism for sure (I don't believe these people understand the concept of nationalism anyway ).

    I've only met Friedman during a series of talks he gave in Prague some years ago. Nothing personal whatsoever.
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    Same recycled bull from the libertarians. Talk about being annoying...
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    (Original post by emvard)
    Oh yes you are quite right. I should have specified that I am talking about anarcho-capitalist, austrian and generally libertarian circles (right-libertarian). By no means are David Friedman's views considered mainstream in the US (not yet). What I was really reffering to was his influence among AMERICAN libertarians as opposed to ... say European libertarians. Americans really consider him a god of some sort. I have spoken to Dutch libertarians and French libertarians and none of them were as "excited" as the Americans. It's not nationalism for sure (I don't believe these people understand the concept of nationalism anyway ).

    I've only met Friedman during a series of talks he gave in Prague some years ago. Nothing personal whatsoever.
    My copy of The Machinery of Freedom is signed. Friedman signed it when I met him at the Libertarian Alliance Conference last year, at which he seemed to be perpetually surrounded by a gaggle of teenaged girls, who, I gathered, were homeschoolers or unschoolers (as are some of his own kids) and learning from him. It was either them or some Italian Austrian economics enthusiasts who wanted to challenge or debate him on why he was not an Austrian economist and on the flaws of the Chicago school.

    He is an interesting guy. I think I enjoy Rothbard more, but Friedman is very thoughtful, has gained his father's ability to explain complex issues in simple terms, and is one of those rare libertarians (unlike Rothbard) who is willing to seek out the flaws in his own positions and examine and try to resolve them.
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    (Original post by Richard_A_Garner)
    My copy of The Machinery of Freedom is signed. Friedman signed it when I met him at the Libertarian Alliance Conference last year, at which he seemed to be perpetually surrounded by a gaggle of teenaged girls, who, I gathered, were homeschoolers or unschoolers (as are some of his own kids) and learning from him. It was either them or some Italian Austrian economics enthusiasts who wanted to challenge or debate him on why he was not an Austrian economist and on the flaws of the Chicago school.

    He is an interesting guy. I think I enjoy Rothbard more, but Friedman is very thoughtful, has gained his father's ability to explain complex issues in simple terms, and is one of those rare libertarians (unlike Rothbard) who is willing to seek out the flaws in his own positions and examine and try to resolve them.
    There's no comparison really. Rothbard has written over 20 books while Friedman has written 5. Not that quantity matters but Rothbard has expressed his views far more analytically than D. Friedman has. Friedman is "young" (not to mention alive) though, so I guess he can continue to write and talk.

    Oh and he definitely is a better communicator than Rothbard! Something in Rothbard's voice made him annoying!! I much preferred reading Rothbard than listening to him... Whereas Friedman is a very smooth talker!
 
 
 
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