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    No need.

    I've already pig cold
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    I probably would get the vaccine, just because I have asthma, not very bad asthma, but still, I'm pretty sure that'd make it worse
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    (Original post by Perfect_Gent)
    I'm not on anybodys team here but antibiotics don't work against viruses.
    lol i was using it as an example of how much medicine has advanced
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    people have to stop worrying so much! I have had swine flu for the past 4 days and i can honestly say that i have had worse symptoms with ordinary flu. I think only the very vunderable- i.e cancer patients and others with serious underlying health conditions should need the vaccine anyway. The vast majority of people who get swine flu will be able to combat it quite easily without help from drugs.
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    (Original post by Prokaryotic_crap)
    this is the same as the 1918 epidemic. more people died of the vaccine than the flu virus itself. That needle is not coming a mile close to me, **** that!
    in 1918 scientists did not even know there was such a thing as a virus, this would not become apparent until 20 years later with the discovery of the electron microscope. so how they could create a vaccine against something they did not know existed is beyond me.

    also, the 1914 pandemic killed somewhere around 50 million to 100 million people. more people than died in the first world war. the vaccine was not created until well into the second wave after millions had already died.


    (Original post by Cup of Inspiration)
    Thalidomide is being used for some type of haemotology conditions now, and is undergoing many research, some are even hailing it a future 'wonder drug'!!
    Yes, that is somwhat accurate. I've not heard of it used for hematology, however, i have heard of it being used to treat certain cancers, including lukemia.

    however, the people (women) who are using thalidomide, and it's sister compound thalomid have to sign a contract to say they will be using two methods of contraception at all times.

    yes, good may have come out of this drug... but to use this example to counter the argument made, was a logical fallacy, and distracted from the topic that the men in white coats don't necessarily understand what they are doing.
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    As I scientist, I put my faith in science. I'd still get the vaccine. It's a RARE side effect, and the chances of getting swine flu (at my age) will probably be at the highest in September (mixing germs at uni/in schools etc), and the vaccine probably won't be produced by then. So I don't think a vaccine would help me anyway!
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    Keep it up!

    I'' think twice now.
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    (Original post by Miss Prankster Pixie)
    Yes, that is somwhat accurate. I've not heard of it used for hematology, however, i have heard of it being used to treat certain cancers, including lukemia.

    however, the people (women) who are using thalidomide, and it's sister compound thalomid have to sign a contract to say they will be using two methods of contraception at all times.

    yes, good may have come out of this drug... but to use this example to counter the argument made, was a logical fallacy, and distracted from the topic that the men in white coats don't necessarily understand what they are doing.
    well of course science can be wrong, the best minds in the world used to think the world is flat, but right now i'd rather put my health and trust into them, we take medication everyday, and i'd rather take it than not
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    (Original post by Tangerine Dream)
    My whole point is to make people aware of this, so they can form a better opinion on whether or not they should receive one.
    I doubt most people can come to a better decision by knowing this. Heck, I would suspect that most people come to a worse decision by knowing this.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    I doubt most people can come to a better decision by knowing this. Heck, I would suspect that most people come to a worse decision by knowing this.

    I agree
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    (Original post by Miss Prankster Pixie)
    Yes, that is somwhat accurate. I've not heard of it used for hematology, however, i have heard of it being used to treat certain cancers, including lukemia.
    Tea on keyboard! :rofl:
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    (Original post by chilliann)
    people have to stop worrying so much! I have had swine flu for the past 4 days and i can honestly say that i have had worse symptoms with ordinary flu. I think only the very vunderable- i.e cancer patients and others with serious underlying health conditions should need the vaccine anyway. The vast majority of people who get swine flu will be able to combat it quite easily without help from drugs.
    So why exactly is it that you think any second wave will be the same? Why do you think there's no risk to the young and healthy from this H1N1?
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    It's worth considering that the Spanish Influenza of 1918, which killed between 50 and 100 million people behaved in a similar way to Swine Flu. There was the initial outbreak where few people died, but then the flu subsequentlt returned in the winter and caused the catastrophically high death rates.
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    I'm sure the doctors/scientists or whoever's in charge is well aware of the risks and inf they are that bad they wouldn't go ahead?
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    You sure you aint got OCD?. Calm down. Stop researching. No offense, but it seems like you have too mmuch time on your hands. Chill out and enjoy your summer
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    (Original post by Cup of Inspiration)
    well of course science can be wrong, the best minds in the world used to think the world is flat, but right now i'd rather put my health and trust into them, we take medication everyday, and i'd rather take it than not
    hmmmn.

    I have a family member who has serious health conditions. Some of which were most likely caused by doctors tinkering when they shouldn't have. He would be on the list to receive the vaccine as he is very high risk of death from regular flu/viruses, let alone a flu strain which we don't have natural immunity to.

    My concern is that his condition may deteriorate further if he takes a vaccine which can cause "gulf war syndrome".

    I take *alot* of medication myself, but i have read extensively on what each of the drugs does and does not do to my body, and taken calculated risks on what I have found. I have also rejected many suggestions for drugs regimes based upon what I have found also (such as the use of GnRH agaonists for a medical condition I have, or hormonal treatments which could make my condition worse in the long run).

    If you feel completely comfortable sticking something into your body when you know nothing about it or the risks it may carry, go ahead, it's your life. But it isn't how I and other people wish to live.

    I would rather have the facility to question and to decide for myself, than not.
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    More information for anyone interested:

    Why are Vaccinations Dangerous?

    The presumed intent of a vaccination is to help you build immunity to potentially harmful organisms that cause illness and disease. However, your body’s immune system is already designed to do this in response to organisms which invade your body naturally.

    Most disease-causing organisms enter your body through the mucous membranes of your nose, mouth, pulmonary system or your digestive tract – not through an injection.

    These mucous membranes have their own immune system, called the IgA immune system. It is a different system from the one activated when a vaccine is injected into your body.

    Your IgA immune system is your body’s first line of defense. Its job is to fight off invading organisms at their entry points, reducing or even eliminating the need for activation of your body’s immune system.

    When a virus is injected into your body in a vaccine, and especially when combined with an immune adjuvant like squalene, your IgA immune system is bypassed and your body’s immune system kicks into high gear in response to the vaccination.

    Injecting organisms into your body to provoke immunity is contrary to nature, and vaccination carries enormous potential to do serious damage to your health.

    And as if Vaccines Weren’t Dangerous Enough on Their Own …

    … imagine them turbocharged.

    The main ingredient in a vaccine is either killed viruses or live ones that have been attenuated (weakened and made less harmful).

    Flu vaccines can also contain a number of chemical toxins, including ethylene glycol (antifreeze), formaldehyde, phenol (carbolic acid) and even antibiotics like Neomycin and streptomycin.

    In addition to the viruses and other additives, many vaccines also contain immune adjuvants like aluminum and squalene.

    The purpose of an immune adjuvant added to a vaccine is to enhance (turbo charge) your immune response to the vaccination. Adjuvants cause your immune system to overreact to the introduction of the organism you’re being vaccinated against.

    Adjuvants are supposed to get the job done faster (but certainly not more safely), which reduces the amount of vaccine required per dose, and the number of doses given per individual.

    Less vaccine required per person means more individual doses available for mass vaccination campaigns. Coincidentally, this is exactly the goal of government and the pharmaceutical companies who stand to make millions from their vaccines.

    Will There Be Immune Adjuvants in Swine Flu Vaccines?

    The U.S. government has contracts with several drug companies to develop and produce swine flu vaccines. At least two of those companies, Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline, are using an adjuvant in their H1N1 vaccines.

    The adjuvant? Squalene.

    According to Meryl Nass, M.D., an authority on the anthrax vaccine,

    “A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline is the addition of squalene-containing adjuvants to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities.”[v]

    Novartis’s proprietary squalene adjuvant for their H1N1 vaccine is MF59. Glaxo’s is ASO3. MF59 has yet to be approved by the FDA for use in any U.S. vaccine, despite its history of use in other countries.

    Per Dr. Nass, there are only three vaccines in existence using an approved squalene adjuvant. None of the three are approved for use in the U.S.

    What Squalene Does to Rats

    Oil-based vaccination adjuvants like squalene have been proved to generate concentrated, unremitting immune responses over long periods of time.[vi]

    A 2000 study published in the American Journal of Pathology demonstrated a single injection of the adjuvant squalene into rats triggered “chronic, immune-mediated joint-specific inflammation,” also known as rheumatoid arthritis.[vii]

    The researchers concluded the study raised questions about the role of adjuvants in chronic inflammatory diseases.

    What Squalene Does to Humans

    Your immune system recognizes squalene as an oil molecule native to your body. It is found throughout your nervous system and brain. In fact, you can consume squalene in olive oil and not only will your immune system recognize it, you will also reap the benefits of its antioxidant properties.

    The difference between “good” and “bad” squalene is the route by which it enters your body. Injection is an abnormal route of entry which incites your immune system to attack all the squalene in your body, not just the vaccine adjuvant.

    Your immune system will attempt to destroy the molecule wherever it finds it, including in places where it occurs naturally, and where it is vital to the health of your nervous system.[viii]

    Gulf War veterans with Gulf War Syndrome (GWS) received anthrax vaccines which contained squalene.[ix] MF59 (the Novartis squalene adjuvant) was an unapproved ingredient in experimental anthrax vaccines and has since been linked to the devastating autoimmune diseases suffered by countless Gulf War vets.[x]

    The Department of Defense made every attempt to deny that squalene was indeed an added contaminant in the anthrax vaccine administered to Persian Gulf war military personnel – deployed and non-deployed – as well as participants in the more recent Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program (AVIP).

    However, the FDA discovered the presence of squalene in certain lots of AVIP product. A test was developed to detect anti-squalene antibodies in GWS patients, and a clear link was established between the contaminated product and all the GWS sufferers who had been injected with the vaccine containing squalene.

    A study conducted at Tulane Medical School and published in the February 2000 issue of Experimental Molecular Pathology included these stunning statistics:

    “ … the substantial majority (95%) of overtly ill deployed GWS patients had antibodies to squalene. All (100%) GWS patients immunized for service in Desert Shield/Desert Storm who did not deploy, but had the same signs and symptoms as those who did deploy, had antibodies to squalene.

    In contrast, none (0%) of the deployed Persian Gulf veterans not showing signs and symptoms of GWS have antibodies to squalene. Neither patients with idiopathic autoimmune disease nor healthy controls had detectable serum antibodies to squalene. The majority of symptomatic GWS patients had serum antibodies to squalene.”[xi]

    According to Dr. Viera Scheibner, Ph.D., a former principle research scientist for the government of Australia:

    “… this adjuvant [squalene] contributed to the cascade of reactions called "Gulf War Syndrome," documented in the soldiers involved in the Gulf War.

    The symptoms they developed included arthritis, fibromyalgia, lymphadenopathy, rashes, photosensitive rashes, malar rashes, chronic fatigue, chronic headaches, abnormal body hair loss, non-healing skin lesions, aphthous ulcers, dizziness, weakness, memory loss, seizures, mood changes, neuropsychiatric problems, anti-thyroid effects, anaemia, elevated ESR (erythrocyte sedimentation rate), systemic lupus erythematosus, multiple sclerosis, ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), Raynaud’s phenomenon, Sjorgren’s syndrome, chronic diarrhoea, night sweats and low-grade fevers.”[xii]
    From: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...t-Exposed.aspx
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    The government obviously want to poison people rather than let them have swine flu. That's perfectly sane.
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    (Original post by jismith1989)
    Indeed. That doesn't mean that it hasn't caused many then unexpected defects for many people though, which was my point.

    US officials are trying to reduce the possibility of the drug being misused by pregnant mothers by saying those who use it must be taking contraceptives.
    But Dr Claus Newman, a specialist in birth defects based at Queen Mary's hospital in Roehampton says: "Even with all the precautions we can set up there will continue to be risks of more congenitally malformed babies being born."
    Doctors are divided on whether thalidomide should be consigned to history or used to treat specific conditions.
    Some describe it as "a necessary evil".



    Anyway, there seems to be nothing like a "wonder drug" in existence. Most of us still die of some cruel disease.
    Thalidomide was prescribed to pregnant women in the 1950s and 1960s when medicines were not as thoroughly tested as they are now.
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    (Original post by Couldxbe)
    Thalidomide was prescribed to pregnant women in the 1950s and 1960s when medicines were not as thoroughly tested as they are now.
    There are loopholes in everything, they may be smaller, but they'll still be there. For example, how could one test for a drug whose negative symptoms only tend to manifest after around twenty years without conducting studies for that long?

    I'm sure that GPs are monitored very closely, and yet Harold Shipman still committed his murders.
 
 
 
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