Are universities really needed? Watch

Revolution is my Name
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#21
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#21
I think it would be difficult for an employer to cover a broad feel such as Computer Science; the incentive would only be there for them to teach what was relevant to that particular job, meaning that some people would be poorly equipped in comparison to others when then going on to get a different job.
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Iron Mask Duval
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#22
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Remembering lots of facts and producing them in exams is true for A levels.
But at University we were actually told that you get low marks or even marked down merely for producing facts in exams. You have to actually do some research.

Your points are even more riduculous than your spelling of the word "available".
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KumakoXsd
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#23
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(Original post by Maker)
1. Many courses at universities are vocational like computer science and fashion design which I think should and could be learned on the job and would in many cases be better. I think too many UK companies have lumbered the universities with teaching things that they should be doing in the first few years of employment of school leavers. But they have very shrewdly made "clever" people stump up £9000 plus living costs to learn these things before entering their business.

2. A lot of stuff taught at university follow the jug and mug model of remembering a lot of facts and reproducing them in exams. This information is readily avialable in paper and electronic form for anyone to read and understand so why bother having a TA stand in front of a lot of undergrads telling them what they can find out for themselves.

I think the role of universities should be changed drastically to more like an organisation to set standards, syllabuses, set and mark exams and grade results.
I actually think universities are needed.. I don't see how people can learn medicine or law from home or on the job.
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Zap Brannigan
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#24
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(Original post by Apricot_Bea)
Ouch!
I don't get it. It's a serious point. If you push the student population straight into the workforce, unemployment figures would swell instantly. Why do you think they encourage so many people to go to Uni on what amounts to little more than a drinking course?
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KumakoXsd
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#25
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(Original post by Iron Mask Duval)
Remembering lots of facts and producing them in exams is true for A levels.
But at University we were actually told that you get low marks or even marked down merely for producing facts in exams. You have to actually do some research.

Your points are even more riduculous than your spelling of the word "available".
I couldn't agree with you more... You're right.. GCSE and A Level are about remembering facts and producing them in exams..

But degrees... Now that's a different story.
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Maker
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#26
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(Original post by KumakoXsd)
I actually think universities are needed.. I don't see how people can learn medicine or law from home or on the job.
Most of the things doctors and solicitors know and do is learnt on the job.
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Maker
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Revolution is my Name)
I think it would be difficult for an employer to cover a broad feel such as Computer Science; the incentive would only be there for them to teach what was relevant to that particular job, meaning that some people would be poorly equipped in comparison to others when then going on to get a different job.

This is one of the arguements for vocational learning to be done on the job. Most of peoples' degree content they will never use even if they work in the same field as their degree so why bother learning it if the aim of the degree is to get work in that field.

Employers are much more likely to be impressed by relevant work experience than a degree.
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Maker
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#28
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(Original post by Iron Mask Duval)
Remembering lots of facts and producing them in exams is true for A levels.
But at University we were actually told that you get low marks or even marked down merely for producing facts in exams. You have to actually do some research.

Your points are even more riduculous than your spelling of the word "available".
I think when people start correcting the spelling of posts, they have run out of arguements and are merely doing the correction perhaps to indicate they have a dictionary or spell checker and know how to use it. Impressive as that is, it adds little to a thread unless it was about spelling.

I have noticed this only happens to posts they don't agree with and never with ones that they do.
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KumakoXsd
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#29
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(Original post by Maker)
Most of the things doctors and solicitors know and do is learnt on the job.
That's VERY true.. However I just don't see how people can learn a whole degree or whatever they learn in university at work or at home..
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Quady
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#30
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(Original post by Maker)
I think when people start correcting the spelling of posts, they have run out of arguements and are merely doing the correction perhaps to indicate they have a dictionary or spell checker and know how to use it.
I think when people stop replying to posts they have run out of arguments.
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Serendipity ♥
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#31
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Hi, I'm a doctor, I'm going to perform heart surgery on you today. I must warn you though, I haven't learnt much about it, past watching ER anyway.

Doesn't quite work.
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Neznayu
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Maker)
1. Many courses at universities are vocational like computer science and fashion design which I think should and could be learned on the job and would in many cases be better.
(Original post by Maker)
1. Many courses at universities are vocational like computer science.
(Original post by Maker)
vocational like computer science
wat
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Iron Mask Duval
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#33
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(Original post by Maker)
I think when people start correcting the spelling of posts, they have run out of arguements and are merely doing the correction perhaps to indicate they have a dictionary or spell checker and know how to use it. Impressive as that is, it adds little to a thread unless it was about spelling.

I have noticed this only happens to posts they don't agree with and never with ones that they do.

What are you talking about ? I clearly made two argumentative points in my post and since when would you need a dictonary or spell checker for the word "available"?

Why would someone think they'd impress someone else by showing them you knew how to use either of those things anyway ?

Also what other posts has it actually happened in when people run out of things to say so just correct the spelling ?

Fudging hell.
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ChemistBoy
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#34
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(Original post by Maker)
This is one of the arguements for vocational learning to be done on the job. Most of peoples' degree content they will never use even if they work in the same field as their degree so why bother learning it if the aim of the degree is to get work in that field.
Because they might want to change career? Because they might want a choice over what they do? To be perfectly honest more is better as far as knowledge is concerned.

Employers are much more likely to be impressed by relevant work experience than a degree.
Depends on the employer and the position applied for.
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Warrior King
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#35
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(Original post by Maker)
I think a lot of current courses that are vocational or with a strong vocational content used to be learned on the job and not at university. Accountancy and nursing for example never used to be degree subjects and people generally went into them after O or A levels. Medicine is really an apprenticeship rather than an academic subject.
I think subjects like English Lit and biology have a place at university because they teach people to question, think and understand in ways that could not be done elsewhere for most people.

I can understand why the universities would want a wide range of courses to appeal to the widest audience but it does seem to dilute what they should be doing which is not to fix the inadequacies of empolyers.

I have been to university by the way.
Yes ofcourse hence tyhe reason why you can learn all the in-depth knowledge of anatomy and physiology and it's clinical applications in an apprenticeship?

Are you even actually at university? I'm guessing not.
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Maker
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Warrior King)
Yes ofcourse hence tyhe reason why you can learn all the in-depth knowledge of anatomy and physiology and it's clinical applications in an apprenticeship?

Are you even actually at university? I'm guessing not.
That would depend on the content of the apprenticeship.

I graduated from university.
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Maker
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#37
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#37
(Original post by Iron Mask Duval)
What are you talking about ? I clearly made two argumentative points in my post and since when would you need a dictonary or spell checker for the word "available"?

Why would someone think they'd impress someone else by showing them you knew how to use either of those things anyway ?

Also what other posts has it actually happened in when people run out of things to say so just correct the spelling ?

Fudging hell.
Temper temper
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Apricot_Bea
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#38
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(Original post by Zap Brannigan)
I don't get it. It's a serious point. If you push the student population straight into the workforce, unemployment figures would swell instantly. Why do you think they encourage so many people to go to Uni on what amounts to little more than a drinking course?

Sorry, I thought it was just a standard cynical, flippant tsr comment.

I don't think it's necessarily the only reason they encourage people to go to university - though I know that's not your actual point - imo they feel it will help the general population. They must see it as doing some good for the country otherwise they wouldn't have figures of wanting 50+% entering higher education... and not just the reason they don't want unemployment figures to rise.


Edit: I'M not sure I understand what I mean, let alone you...!
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Zap Brannigan
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#39
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(Original post by Apricot_Bea)
Sorry, I thought it was just a standard cynical, flippant tsr comment.

I don't think it's necessarily the only reason they encourage people to go to university - though I know that's not your actual point - imo they feel it will help the general population. They must see it as doing some good for the country otherwise they wouldn't have figures of wanting 50+% entering higher education... and not just the reason they don't want unemployment figures to rise.


Edit: I'M not sure I understand what I mean, let alone you...!
In my own experience - which is all I have to go on - the majority of people on these courses that allow them to be in the pub by midday 5 days out of 7 have no idea what they want to do. A handful of them want to do something like joining the army, and admit that their degree does nothing to help them. Even less are convinced they are destined for showbiz glamour and fame and that a degree is going to help them on their way.

I'm not saying university as a whole is a pointless experience. It's obviously not. I'm damn glad we have graduates in certain areas. But a lot of people (I know) are at university to delay the reality of having to grow up and work a 9-5, or worse - do nothing and claim benefits. I struggle to think of reasons ther Government would want them in university other than that I mentioned - I actually think they're smart enough to realise some of these courses offer such little return.
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Apricot_Bea
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(Original post by Zap Brannigan)
In my own experience - which is all I have to go on - the majority of people on these courses that allow them to be in the pub by midday 5 days out of 7 have no idea what they want to do. A handful of them want to do something like joining the army, and admit that their degree does nothing to help them. Even less are convinced they are destined for showbiz glamour and fame and that a degree is going to help them on their way.

I'm not saying university as a whole is a pointless experience. It's obviously not. I'm damn glad we have graduates in certain areas. But a lot of people (I know) are at university to delay the reality of having to grow up and work a 9-5, or worse - do nothing and claim benefits. I struggle to think of reasons ther Government would want them in university other than that I mentioned - I actually think they're smart enough to realise some of these courses offer such little return.
I do have to continue to disagree with you, you are basing this on subjective experience, not fact. Being at university myself I know a lot of people who are here to further their education and to propel them into the graduate world with a decent degree, which will hopefully help them continue along a chosen path. Personally I was not sure about what I wanted to do after 6th form, so followed the university path. Just because I went instead of getting a job without a clear idea about where I was going in life... and I guess I was delaying the inevitable of going into the working world... does not mean that I will not utilise the opportunities presented to me. Sure I go out and sure I drink, but I am still going to finish with a decent mark and go on into the working world and strive for a good job and career.

Many of my peers are the same and I think that your comments are quite narrow minded and do not reflect the univeristy population as a whole.
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