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Immigration: A Problem that URGENTLY needs to be adressed: Yes or No. Watch

  • View Poll Results: Immigration: A problem that URGENTLY needs to be addressed. Yes or No.
    Yes
    48
    60.76%
    No
    31
    39.24%

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    I think it really depends upon the situation of the immigration. Not all immigrants receive benefit claims, and I really think it is not fair to stereotype immigrants this way...

    There are immigrants with low working skills and/or speaks poor English, while there are highly skilled immigrants and/or speaks very good English.

    It may also depend on the type of immigration - some are married to an English partner therefore such situation of immigration, I'd say, should be approved to come to UK.

    Immigration can be beneficial for UK's future if the immigrants are skillful and pay tax etc, and I think everyone should deserve a fair chance to come into the UK.

    Also not to mention, another way to immigrate to UK is through investment: you need to invest 1 million pounds worth of investments within the UK, which must include a property(s). I think this is the "best" type of immigration because it immediately gives more money to the UK and its often attracts the most successful/highly skilled foreigners of the world to come to the UK, which in the long term brings more skilled people and tax to the UK.
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    No the world is far too left wing now, think of Obama's election.

    Might as well let them all in now, the concept of nationality is dying out. We need to get rid of countries and live as one.
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    FREE MIGRATION!

    People should be able to move wherever they wish, it is a basic human right to move and absolutely no one has the authority to take that away. Treating people differently just because they were born on the opposite side of a national boundary is totally unfair & unethical as it is obviously impossible to choose your place of birth and therefore unjustifiable to treat people differently based on it. On top of this if free migration was allowed, although initially people from undeveloped countries would flock into developed nations, free trade would, over time, allow all areas of the earth to become equally developed leading to a world that overall would be far more developed than it currently is.
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    (Original post by Crimsonchilli)
    out of pure interest, could anyone who answered no please justify their answer.
    I just don't see immigration, particularly at current levels, as something which particularly matters or presents any sort of problem. I don't believe it needs addressed at all, never mind urgently.
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    (Original post by MALIK HAMID)
    FREE MIGRATION!

    People should be able to move wherever they wish, it is a basic human right to move and absolutely no one has the authority to take that away.
    Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state."

    Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "Everyone has the right to a nationality"

    Your no borders ideal seemingly conflicts this notion that it is a "basic human right" to have a nationality. Governments do have an authority to restrict entry to the country they govern for a plethora of reasons which people living in cloud-cuckoo land can't seem to grasp.

    (Original post by MALIK HAMID)
    Treating people differently just because they were born on the opposite side of a national boundary is totally unfair & unethical as it is obviously impossible to choose your place of birth and therefore unjustifiable to treat people differently based on it.
    It's not a case of "treat[ing] people differently", it's a case of logistics, resources, population levels and practicalities.

    (Original post by MALIK HAMID)
    On top of this if free migration was allowed, although initially people from undeveloped countries would flock into developed nations, free trade would, over time, allow all areas of the earth to become equally developed leading to a world that overall would be far more developed than it currently is.
    It doesn't matter. If everyone from the Third World entered Europe, there'd be no resources to trade, there wouldn't be enough homes for people to live in, we'd see mass unemployment, mass congestion, colossal climate change, and even starvation. As much as certain people seem to like the end of a "borderless planet" they haven't really thought it through.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state."

    Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: "Everyone has the right to a nationality"

    Your no borders ideal seemingly conflicts this notion that it is a "basic human right" to have a nationality. Governments do have an authority to restrict entry to the country they govern for a plethora of reasons which people living in cloud-cuckoo land can't seem to grasp.
    When I said basic human right I was not actually refering to the UDHR, I was simply stating that humans do not have the right to prevent other humans from moving as they wish. (Sorry If I wasn't clear)

    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    It's not a case of "treat[ing] people differently", it's a case of logistics, resources, population levels and practicalities.

    It doesn't matter. If everyone from the Third World entered Europe, there'd be no resources to trade, there wouldn't be enough homes for people to live in, we'd see mass unemployment, mass congestion, colossal climate change, and even starvation. As much as certain people seem to like the end of a "borderless planet" they haven't really thought it through.
    Well, developed countries clearly have a higher standard of living than undeveloped/developing nations and as such people born into developed nations tend to, in general, have a better quality of life. If individuals had the right to move freely which at the moment they/we do not individuals could acquire sufficient funds through access to the resources currently across a border to help to develop their own country through open businesses etc.

    Of course the large influx of poor migrants into developed countries would result in overcrowding, however, rapidly the developed country would begin to appear less desirable to live in than the undeveloped country leading to a reversal of the migration pattern, as some of the individuals leaving the developed country for the undeveloped country would be relatively wealthy they would be able to build businesses in the undeveloped country, rapidly developing it. Shortly, the population would be equally distributed amongst previously rich and poor nations leading to stabilisation and an overall increase in development.

    (Edit: typo)
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    (Original post by Sharpshooter)
    No the world is far too left wing now, think of Obama's election.

    Might as well let them all in now, the concept of nationality is dying out. We need to get rid of countries and live as one.
    i don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but don't you think it's a shame to let the concept of nationality die? basically nationality = culture and a culture dying out is a real shame

    edit: lol at the post above me
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    (Original post by kyc)
    I think it really depends upon the situation of the immigration. Not all immigrants receive benefit claims, and I really think it is not fair to stereotype immigrants this way...

    There are immigrants with low working skills and/or speaks poor English, while there are highly skilled immigrants and/or speaks very good English.

    It may also depend on the type of immigration - some are married to an English partner therefore such situation of immigration, I'd say, should be approved to come to UK.

    Immigration can be beneficial for UK's future if the immigrants are skillful and pay tax etc, and I think everyone should deserve a fair chance to come into the UK.

    Also not to mention, another way to immigrate to UK is through investment: you need to invest 1 million pounds worth of investments within the UK, which must include a property(s). I think this is the "best" type of immigration because it immediately gives more money to the UK and its often attracts the most successful/highly skilled foreigners of the world to come to the UK, which in the long term brings more skilled people and tax to the UK.
    Ok fine fair enough, and I agree, but you have to admit what you described counts for an extremally small amount of the influx to the UK. Im fairly sure not that many come here and invest 1mil straight off. As i said in a previous post, im all for unlimited immigration, aslong as it is controlled and we let the right people in, not what we are doing at the moment which is letting anyone who turns up at our door wanting to cash in on the current system of spending our tax payers money of millions of immigrants housing, schooling, health care, benefits etc, when they put practically nothing back into the system, and in far to many cases actually take away from it. Thats what needs to change in my mind, Im all for a trained IT manager from Pakistan coming in who would earn his stay and pay taxes etc just like the rest of us, but not for a family of 30 from the same place who just want to come and sponge off what is effectively my hard earned money.
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    (Original post by Sharpshooter)
    ... the concept of nationality is dying out. We need to get rid of countries and live as one.
    I think you're on to something there. Globalisation is really just a continuation of processes which have already taken place within national boundaries in the west (such as the rapid movement of people from countryside to towns and cities). The movement of people from poor and unstable peripheries of the world towards the wealthy centres (which tend also to be socially and culturally liberal, an added attraction) is the same kind of thing on another scale.

    And, yes, I think conventional ideas about 'nationality' are fading because even setting aside the social and cultural effects of migration, we're increasingly embracing life as we choose. We can choose mexican food, hip-hop, asian fashion and paganism today whereas previous 'national' conventions in food, music, dress and religion were either actively imposed or a matter of limited options producing uniformity. I'm all for a global society myself - bring it on!
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    (Original post by Crimsonchilli)
    Ok fine fair enough, and I agree, but you have to admit what you described counts for an extremally small amount of the influx to the UK. Im fairly sure not that many come here and invest 1mil straight off. As i said in a previous post, im all for unlimited immigration, aslong as it is controlled and we let the right people in, not what we are doing at the moment which is letting anyone who turns up at our door wanting to cash in on the current system of spending our tax payers money of millions of immigrants housing, schooling, health care, benefits etc, when they put practically nothing back into the system, and in far to many cases actually take away from it. Thats what needs to change in my mind, Im all for a trained IT manager from Pakistan coming in who would earn his stay and pay taxes etc just like the rest of us, but not for a family of 30 from the same place who just want to come and sponge off what is effectively my hard earned money.
    What's the difference between an immigrant who sponges off the taxpayer and a British citizen who sponges off the taxpayer? In other words, is immigration the problem or does your problem lie entirely with the benefits system? It seems that you're aiming at completely the wrong target.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    What's the difference between an immigrant who sponges off the taxpayer and a British citizen who sponges off the taxpayer? In other words, is immigration the problem or does your problem lie entirely with the benefits system? It seems that you're aiming at completely the wrong target.
    na i totally agree thats why i think our first priority should be sorting out the benefits system and thus killing two birds with one stone. However even if the benefits system was sorted, it still wouldn't stop immigrants flocking in and using up hospitals, schools and council housing etc, and considering the system is already struggling as it is, imagine what it would be like with say another million in the next year, or another 5 million in the next 3 years. Its got to the point that on the NHS if you have something like chronic sinusitis and need an oporation, you need to wait 8 MONTHS untill the op, and the sole problem here is sheer numbers.
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    (Original post by Crimsonchilli)
    na i totally agree thats why i think our first priority should be sorting out the benefits system and thus killing two birds with one stone. However even if the benefits system was sorted, it still wouldn't stop immigrants flocking in and using up hospitals, schools and council housing etc, and considering the system is already struggling as it is, imagine what it would be like with say another million in the next year, or another 5 million in the next 3 years. Its got to the point that on the NHS if you have something like chronic sinusitis and need an oporation, you need to wait 8 MONTHS untill the op, and the sole problem here is sheer numbers.
    Why is it a concern if immigrants use hospitals, schools or council housing? If they pay for it through tax then why do they have any less right to use it than British citizens? If more people live in the country then the government has a larger budget, which it spends on providing extra services for the extra people. You seem to mistakenly think that hospitals, schools or housing are fixed resources that cannot adjust in size depending on the population; they aren't.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    Why is it a concern if immigrants use hospitals, schools or council housing? If they pay for it through tax then why do they have any less right to use it than British citizens? If more people live in the country then the government has a larger budget, which it spends on providing extra services for the extra people. You seem to mistakenly think that hospitals, schools or housing are fixed resources that cannot adjust in size depending on the population; they aren't.
    Immigrants tend to earn less than natives and therefore get taxed less on average. They also have not been here for a considerable amount of time in many cases meaning that the tax they have paid could easily be far less than the benefits they recieve.

    And those with extremely low incomes who are on benefits don't often pay any income tax at all.

    You are also ignoring illegal aliens who pay no tax but can often sneak benefits.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    I think you're on to something there. Globalisation is really just a continuation of processes which have already taken place within national boundaries in the west (such as the rapid movement of people from countryside to towns and cities). The movement of people from poor and unstable peripheries of the world towards the wealthy centres (which tend also to be socially and culturally liberal, an added attraction) is the same kind of thing on another scale.

    And, yes, I think conventional ideas about 'nationality' are fading because even setting aside the social and cultural effects of migration, we're increasingly embracing life as we choose. We can choose mexican food, hip-hop, asian fashion and paganism today whereas previous 'national' conventions in food, music, dress and religion were either actively imposed or a matter of limited options producing uniformity. I'm all for a global society myself - bring it on!
    Well I'm not sure if I would like it. I'm learning Japanese at the moment and possibly later in life will move onto Mandarin Chinese as I love Asian cultures. I'm so annoyed with living in the UK and I ideolise living somewhere different, i.e. Australia, Japan, Korea, America, just to get a break from here. Just somewhere soooo mysterious and different.

    But my "fear" is that the world will become as one, all acting the same in some sort of fully globalised world, all speaking English, everyone eating take-aways, watching chavvy shows like the x factor, all acting like people from your local neighbourhood, I mean where you could romantisize about living somewhere different if its all the same everywhere like that?

    I think it will happen though, it's putting me off learning languages in a wierd way, which I find sad. Too much gloablisation will see the end of everything.
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    (Original post by Kolya)
    Why is it a concern if immigrants use hospitals, schools or council housing? If they pay for it through tax then why do they have any less right to use it than British citizens? If more people live in the country then the government has a larger budget, which it spends on providing extra services for the extra people. You seem to mistakenly think that hospitals, schools or housing are fixed resources that cannot adjust in size depending on the population; they aren't.

    but thats only if they DO pay tax though, which in far too many cases isnt true. Many are under the threshold and so legally don't have to pay anything, just putting more and more strain on the economy. Call me selfish if you want but especially right now during the credit crunch it really annoys me that i'm having to cut back in many ways to save cash while much of my tax goes to helping randomers who just strole in pay for whatever they want, all funded by my money. Im all for helping people, but i think especially now its time to start looking after ourselves a bit more first before we dwindling away resources on anyone else who wants it.
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    (Original post by sandeep90)
    Yes. The country is already over populated as it is and there are massive strains on welfare and NHS. Stricter immigration laws must be a major part of the next government's plans.

    I've lived in this country for a year and have never used the NHS, although I have been consecutively paying NI and tax.

    (Original post by Crimsonchilli)
    Many are under the threshold and so legally don't have to pay anything, just putting more and more strain on the economy
    But they still spend money in this country, don't they?


    From what I can see, it is ok if immigrants pay tax and contribute financially to the economy, but then again, it's not fair for them to put strain on the healthcare system.
    I am sure every each of you would expect at least free healthcare in return, if you worked abroad.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not against monitored immigration, if the goverment perceieved it as a burden on the economy, but I pretty much disgusted by comments that sound very BNP-like. Immigrants from the 50's are decent, they rest can hide under the table- and so on.
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    Next time you go to the dentist or a pharmacy look around at the races of the people working there & then tell me that immigration puts more pressure on the nhs!
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    (Original post by MALIK HAMID)
    Next time you go to the dentist or a pharmacy look around at the races of the people working there & then tell me that immigration puts more pressure on the nhs!
    you could say similar of prisons


    I joke, I joke..
    (prepares for verbal onslaught..)
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    (Original post by Crimsonchilli)
    you could say similar of prisons


    I joke, I joke..
    (prepares for verbal onslaught..)
    ahaha nah i gotta admit that was quite funny

    Edit: btw you do know that there are a low proportion of asians in jail right.. so really, we get the last laugh

    Edit 2: Unless, of course, you happen to be in guantanamo bay, but even then... we sue you once we get out
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    (Original post by Sharpshooter)
    Well I'm not sure if I would like it. I'm learning Japanese at the moment and possibly later in life will move onto Mandarin Chinese as I love Asian cultures. I'm so annoyed with living in the UK and I ideolise living somewhere different, i.e. Australia, Japan, Korea, America, just to get a break from here. Just somewhere soooo mysterious and different.

    But my "fear" is that the world will become as one, all acting the same in some sort of fully globalised world, all speaking English, everyone eating take-aways, watching chavvy shows like the x factor, all acting like people from your local neighbourhood, I mean where you could romantisize about living somewhere different if its all the same everywhere like that?

    I think it will happen though, it's putting me off learning languages in a wierd way, which I find sad. Too much gloablisation will see the end of everything.
    Well, even though I don't agree with your scenario I think I'd still sooner have freedom to participate in global culture than have the likes of the BNP try and tell me I should spend my time listening to folk music and morris-dancing, or whatever it is they think I'm supposed to do. I tend to think that even in the face of globalisation there'll be geographic variation and 'otherness' you can romantically discover (if that's what you want). We only have to look at the variety of sub-cultures that exist in the white English-speaking world of Britain and the US to see that variety can emerge and maintain itself quite easily, albeit, I accept, under the direction of capitalist/consumer hegemony.
 
 
 
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