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Churchill, a British Hero? watch

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    This is in response to Churchill being considered a hero or an idol.

    I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on this.

    Winston Churchill is more hype, there's no denying that he was a racist imperialist. I'm not EVEN claiming he was a racist on the grounds that he was an imperialist, although to me that sounds a fairly good argument; he was a racist independent of that, oh the great man. Also, he doesn't have the excuse of earlier thinkers who shared similar views, i.e. the great liberal John Stuart Mill. The reminds very much of another 'great' individual, President Lincoln, and we all know what the abolitionists thought of him, it's taught all across schools I am sure of it.
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    at the end of the day, no one cares what his views were, his genius saved all our (ancestors) asses.
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    the man did have a top hat, u gotta love him for that.
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    (Original post by emporium)
    at the end of the day, no one cares what his views were, his genius saved all our (ancestors) asses.

    What did he do?
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    What did he do?
    tell me you're taking the piss......please
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    (Original post by emporium)
    tell me you're taking the piss......please
    Not at all, I'm wondering how exactly he saved us though?
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    Not at all, I'm wondering how exactly he saved us though?

    I'm genuinely curious here. Also, I would like for you to explain why nobody cares for what his views were? I personally do.
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    I don't get all the fuss about Churchill. OK, he made great speeches and was a bit charismatic. I make great speeches and have been told I'm charismatic, so what? Doesn't make either of us an idol.
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    I'm genuinely curious here. Also, I would like for you to explain why nobody cares for what his views were? I personally do.

    He did act as a figurehead for the people - an authority figure. And I think he gave quite a lot of orders and made quite a lot of military decisions etc - and negotiated with other world political figures - though I'm not a historian and haven't been for some years so this is guesswork! I dunno. I've always figured he worked hard to keep this country independent and earned his respect, though I'm not sure whether I'd agree that he was the 'Greatest Briton'...
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    (Original post by MadNatSci)
    He did act as a figurehead for the people - an authority figure. And I think he gave quite a lot of orders and made quite a lot of military decisions etc - and negotiated with other world political figures - though I'm not a historian and haven't been for some years so this is guesswork! I dunno. I've always figured he worked hard to keep this country independent and earned his respect, though I'm not sure whether I'd agree that he was the 'Greatest Briton'...
    Yes, I'm aware that he made a contribution, I was just wondering how he saved 'our asses', as someone asserted. Also, being an Asian, born, bought up and educated in Briton, I do want to feel a part of this country. I find it rather difficult when there's so much worship here of someone that was an imperial racist.
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    Also, being an Asian, born, bought up and educated in Briton.
    If you were born, bought up and educated in Britain, then you're not an Asian.
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    (Original post by a_musical_git)
    If you were born, bought up and educated in Britain, then you're not an Asian.
    Well yes he can be if he goes by his ethnic origin maybe. You have no right to tell him who he is or isn't, that's up to him.
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    This is in response to Churchill being considered a hero or an idol.

    I was just wondering what people's thoughts were on this.

    Winston Churchill is more hype, there's no denying that he was a racist imperialist. I'm not EVEN claiming he was a racist on the grounds that he was an imperialist, although to me that sounds a fairly good argument; he was a racist independent of that, oh the great man. Also, he doesn't have the excuse of earlier thinkers who shared similar views, i.e. the great liberal John Stuart Mill. The reminds very much of another 'great' individual, President Lincoln, and we all know what the abolitionists thought of him, it's taught all across schools I am sure of it.
    Does it matter if he is imperialist or racist. He lived 50 years ago in diffferent times and he is a genius. John Stuart Mill is also a dude, why do they need excuses.
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    (Original post by JSM)
    Does it matter if he is imperialist or racist. He lived 50 years ago in diffferent times and he is a genius. John Stuart Mill is also a dude, why do they need excuses.
    agreed.
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    (Original post by a_musical_git)
    If you were born, bought up and educated in Britain, then you're not an Asian.
    in principle no he isnt.
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    (Original post by JSM)
    Does it matter if he is imperialist or racist. He lived 50 years ago in diffferent times and he is a genius. John Stuart Mill is also a dude, why do they need excuses.
    I never heard anything about Churchill being racist, but putting it into perspective, how many people have grandparents who aren't?
    As for the saving our asses, this was in a day when politicians made real decisions, rather than appointing constant commitees. It was also Churchills campaigning that finally persuaded the government it needed to get its ass into gear.
    That and the polish invasion.
    J
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    I never heard anything about Churchill being racist, but putting it into perspective, how many people have grandparents who aren't?
    As for the saving our asses, this was in a day when politicians made real decisions, rather than appointing constant commitees. It was also Churchills campaigning that finally persuaded the government it needed to get its ass into gear.
    That and the polish invasion.
    J
    i think that answers the question rather well...
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i think that answers the question rather well...
    I really don't think it does. The claim that people of that generation were often racist is fascinating, I don't profess a great deal of knowledge on the views of British people of that era, I mean independent of what I have read. Therefore, I cannot comment on the 'everyone's grandfathers a racist' view. However, maybbbe, there's a lack of awareness amongst British people on the extent to which Churchill was a racist. Although, I did think it was at least fairly well documented.

    I'm just wondering, if people were aware of the extent (and I suspect they're not, rather like the situation with Lincoln in the U.S), then perhaps there would less admiration. I personally find if very difficult to admire such extreme racist who lived into the latter part of the 20th century.
    As for saviour from the Nazi onslaught, we never seem to thank the Russian military quite as much. Anyway, out of interest may be:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0...849122,00.html

    Would seem as though he was particularly suited to the job of President of the Air Council.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    in principle no he isnt.
    I would be grateful if you could outline the specific 'principle' through which I ought to determine whether or not I am entitled to call myself Asian; although I'm usually inclined to refer to myself as 'Indian', as it's more specific.
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    (Original post by J.S.)
    I really don't think it does. The claim that people of that generation were often racist is fascinating, I don't profess a great deal of knowledge on the views of British people of that era, I mean independent of what I have read. Therefore, I cannot comment on the 'everyone's grandfathers a racist' view. However, maybbbe, there's a lack of awareness amongst British people on the extent to which Churchill was a racist. Although, I did think it was at least fairly well documented.
    his point was that attitudes have changed considerably not to mention the whole demographic nature of the country. how was he a racist?

    I'm just wondering, if people were aware of the extent (and I suspect they're not, rather like the situation with Lincoln in the U.S), then perhaps there would less admiration. I personally find if very difficult to admire such extreme racist who lived into the latter part of the 20th century.
    As for saviour from the Nazi onslaught, we never seem to thank the Russian military quite as much. Anyway, out of interest may be:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0...849122,00.html

    Would seem as though he was particularly suited to the job of President of the Air Council.
    if this Guardian nonsense is what you define as racist then im afraid its a very laughable accusation.
 
 
 
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