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Tuition fees watch

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    Can anyone help me because if I get asked my opinions on tuition fees im prob gonna have to say that its good cos unis want tuition fees. Now im gonna have to back my argument up so what are the reasons why we need tuition fees? help!
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    to pay for your course. but if u are under 19 when u start it is free.
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    no, most the academic staff are against it.(at least at exeter they are)
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    Yeah alright i appreciate that some are against tuition fees but m8 i need arguments for the intro of tuition fees, any other comments are not particularly useful 4 me !!! ok
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    If you Google for "The Future of Higher Education White Paper" and click on the dfes site you can read the entire white paper (only about 1/4 of it is to do with tuition fees) which includes the reasoning behind the 50% participation target (which the Tory party use as their main arguement against) and the reasoning behind the need for more funding and why it should continue to be funded by both the tax payer and the people who benefit directly but with more emphasis on the student (alongside a more accessable payment system and more student support through grants hardship loans etc).

    Funding per student has been falling rapidly since 1992 and over the last 5 years or so HEFCE (the Higher Education Funding Council of England (and the scottish and welsh FCs)) has made it impossible to fund further expansion without more payment from the government. The government thinks the country needs more graduates (and people wth HND level qualifications) to compete internationally in the job market, the universities need more funding per student to compete internationally for research funding etc and so a big wodge of cash needs to be found from somewhere. Repeated studies have shown that the best way to improve education standards in a country is through extra cash for toddlers so the government's priority for education tax money is the new sure start schemes which means money for HE has to come from the students themselves.
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    It discourages students from going to university, and it provides an incentive to get a job, possibly in the plumbing or building industry where there are very few of these tradesmen around. (did you know that a plumber can get £70,000 a year?)
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    i don't have to pay tution fees cos i'm under 19. but i thought that if u went to uni and u had to pay your own way, you could learn and they would just take out a certain number out of your pay check for the rest of your life.
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    (Original post by Ollie)
    no, most the academic staff are against it.(at least at exeter they are)
    Its the unis themselves that are pushing for more investment; well maybe not the academic staff but the admin lot. Definately here at Imperial our rector has been banging on about it for the last few years. Oxbridge, UCL and LSE also want these fees otherwise they may go private.
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    So what arguments do universities pose about the introduction of tuition fees?
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    Unfortunately at Bath, tuition fees are widely supported by the important people.
    The problem is - a funding crisis in British Universities, which needs to be addressed. However, I think raising tuition fees is not the right way to go about it.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Unfortunately at Bath, tuition fees are widely supported by the important people.
    The problem is - a funding crisis in British Universities, which needs to be addressed. However, I think raising tuition fees is not the right way to go about it.
    What is the right way to go about it ?
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    The problem is that we already have a two tier university system - 1) full time undergraduate courses (mainly filled by Brits with costs subsidised partly by state) It is threadbare, overcrowded and politicised
    Take more students in the name of social engineering, to promote particular subjects. It is in essence a Soviet planned economy
    2)is competition, for staff,students and research money. thisis part time and postgraduate students who pay for their own course. It is more dynamic and tougher.

    Both worlds co-existed but it is coming to the crunch as universities can no longer afford to subsidise the 1st with money from the 2. The problem is that the top up fees that are proposed are not enough, it costs £8,000 a year to teach an undergraduate, more in sciences. Foir fees to be successfull, you really need a multi tier system like in America where universities can charge as much for courses as they need (although many are businesses), we shouldn't go that for but keep them as non profit making organisations
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    (Original post by JSM)
    The problem is that we already have a two tier university system - 1) full time undergraduate courses (mainly filled by Brits with costs subsidised partly by state) It is threadbare, overcrowded and politicised
    Take more students in the name of social engineering, to promote particular subjects. It is in essence a Soviet planned economy
    2)is competition, for staff,students and research money. thisis part time and postgraduate students who pay for their own course. It is more dynamic and tougher.

    Both worlds co-existed but it is coming to the crunch as universities can no longer afford to subsidise the 1st with money from the 2. The problem is that the top up fees that are proposed are not enough, it costs £8,000 a year to teach an undergraduate, more in sciences. Foir fees to be successfull, you really need a multi tier system like in America where universities can charge as much for courses as they need (although many are businesses), we shouldn't go that for but keep them as non profit making organisations
    Good One.
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    (Original post by HamaL)
    What is the right way to go about it ?
    Progressive taxation (e.g. 50% income tax band for those earning higher than £100k per year)
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    (Original post by JSM)
    The problem is that we already have a two tier university system - 1) full time undergraduate courses (mainly filled by Brits with costs subsidised partly by state) It is threadbare, overcrowded and politicised
    Take more students in the name of social engineering, to promote particular subjects. It is in essence a Soviet planned economy
    2)is competition, for staff,students and research money. thisis part time and postgraduate students who pay for their own course. It is more dynamic and tougher.

    Both worlds co-existed but it is coming to the crunch as universities can no longer afford to subsidise the 1st with money from the 2. The problem is that the top up fees that are proposed are not enough, it costs £8,000 a year to teach an undergraduate, more in sciences. Foir fees to be successfull, you really need a multi tier system like in America where universities can charge as much for courses as they need (although many are businesses), we shouldn't go that for but keep them as non profit making organisations
    ... and how will poorer students be able to afford these substantially higher fees.
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    In this weeks Economist there was an interesting article regarding tuition fees. While they agreed that an increase in tuition fees is needed they felt that the £3k proposed by the government was too small - arguing instead for an uncapped tuition fee.
    They also felt that the extra 'top-up fee' wouldn't be treated as such, instead all unis would be forced to use it (even if they didn't want to) for fear of seeming inferior to those that do charge it.

    I'm personally all for the £3k tuition fee, but feel that an uncapped tution fee would be too much.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    ... and how will poorer students be able to afford these substantially higher fees.
    bursaries
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    (Original post by JSM)
    bursaries
    funded by?
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    (Original post by JSM)
    it costs £8,000 a year to teach an undergraduate, more in sciences.
    Who told you that?

    The Base Unit Price provided in the HEFCE teaching grant is £2885pa. Classroom based subjects are allocated this amount with the more expensive subjects recieving a weighting of this amount (1.5 for part lab (£4327.5), 2 for lab based (£5770) and 4.5 for clinical medicine(£12,982.5) these weightings and the BUP are currently under the process of being updated (http://education.guardian.co.uk/egwe...081828,00.html )to better reflect the actual expenditure - which is all a bit of a paper pushing exercise considering that top up fees will cause a major update of the system in 2006 anyway).

    This is the amount allocated including any fees paid for by the student (so the teaching grant contains the weighted sum - the ~£1000 that LEAs/students pay). Postgraduate taught students are funded based on an assumption of fee level (currently assumed to be £2940pa which actually means that each PGT student you recruit your teaching grant is reduced by £10...real money makers :rolleyes: ) so it's likely that top up fees will also reduce the size of the teaching grant based on assumption of what is charged not on what is actually charged - forcing the hand of universities to charge the full £3k or suffer a cut in funding per student.

    If you are using the amount generally charged to overseas students then that is the price the market will sustain not the cost price - 1 international UG student will fund the equivalent of 8 home/eu UG students (once admin etc costs are taken into account).
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    funded by?
    Universities - the process of costing out the new system has already started.

    Industry is also likely to put it's money where it's mouth is instead of bemoaning a lack of trained graduates actually helping to fund them through the system.
 
 
 
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