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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Doesnt this just show that synthetic chemicals are not as safe afterall? To be even more specific thalydamide exist as two optical isomers, and only one of these isomeres cause the problems. The other isomer gives the desiered effect. If anything this shoyuld show that the synthetic chemicals are not generally safe just cus they have been around for a long time. A minor difference in the structure might give disasterous consequences. Future chemicals may react radically diferent than previous ones. We do NOT understand the consequences of chemicals in food any better than GM food. If anyone claim to have an even close to complete understanding of the chemical system in the boddy, he or she deserves a nobel price...

    I do not say that you should just release GM food without regulations, but Im saying that the policy versus chemicals in food and GM food are radically different, without any real reason. Chemicals can have just as bizarre side effects as GM, yet the restrictions are not half as rash..
    You don't have to show off about your knowledge of thalydamide, I already new about its optical activity, lol. Of course, we don't fully understand the consequences of synthetic chemicals, but to assert that we do not understand the consequences of them better than we do GM is simply untrue. As both I and King of swords have said, genetic technology may be an exciting prospect, but we can only start to imagine the potential risks assosciated. The chemical system in the body is understood in a reasonable amount of detail, when compared with our knowledge of genes.
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    You said it yourself, we should learn from the thalydamide mistake and NOT put our efforts into GM food (especially as we would be better spending time on something more problematic such as global warming together with the energy problem (oil doesn't last forever )).
    One step ahead of ya: http://www.iter.org

    Personally I think GM can have great benefits if it is done propperly. It seems to me like people try to dismiss it just cus it is GM , rather than actually trying to keep a carefull developement and research around the topic...
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    One step ahead of ya: http://www.iter.org

    Personally I think GM can have great benefits if it is done propperly. It seems to me like people try to dismiss it just cus it is GM , rather than actually trying to keep a carefull developement and research around the topic...
    yeah i know but they haven't managed to get the temperatures required for Hydrogen atoms to fuse....it's worth a hell of a lot of money to anyone who manages it...i'm one of those dreamers hehe
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    One step ahead of ya: http://www.iter.org

    Personally I think GM can have great benefits if it is done propperly. It seems to me like people try to dismiss it just cus it is GM , rather than actually trying to keep a carefull developement and research around the topic...
    Actually, there is an incredible amount of research going into genetic engineering everyday, conducted by thousands of scientists in hundreds of countries across the globe. The progress which has been accomplished in just fifty years is quite astounding.
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    GM is about profits and exploitation, under the guise of benifits.
    I think it depends what they modify, most modifications are i belive, on things that others belive they know a lot about and belive that there's nothing too crucial in those genes based on many beliefs.

    Thalidomide was a serious fk up, but it was in part responsible for a lot of study of chiral chemistry... which has no doubt had a lot of good effects in pharmacuticals... but it was also found it didn't even matter if only the S isomer was created/selected because of our own damn bodies messing things around both isomers still endup in the blood stream... i wonder what great revelations will come as a result of GM tragedies? if there are any... which i hope there won't be.
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    yeah i know but they haven't managed to get the temperatures required for Hydrogen atoms to fuse....it's worth a hell of a lot of money to anyone who manages it...i'm one of those dreamers hehe
    As far as I understood it they have reached those temperatures, only that the energy output is less that the energy requiered to initiate the fusion... The main difficulty as I understood it was to controll the plasma as it tends to be quite unstable...
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    As far as I understood it they have reached those temperatures, only that the energy output is less that the energy requiered to initiate the fusion... The main difficulty as I understood it was to controll the plasma as it tends to be quite unstable...
    yes that's a point....it's the plasma being unstable which prevents it getting to the appropriate temperature....also if you take a look at a graph of atomic stability of all the elements there is no doubt that when succeeded fusion WILL create far more energy than is required to initiate it.
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    (Original post by Spc_K)
    GM is about profits and exploitation, under the guise of benifits. But i think it depends what they modify, most modifications are i belive, on things that others belive they know a lot about and belive that there's nothing too crucial in those genes based on many beliefs.

    Thalidomide was a serious fk up, but it was in part responsible for a lot of study of chiral chemistry... which has no doubt had a lot of good effects in pharmacuticals... but it was also found it didn't even matter if only the S isomer was created/selected because of our own damn bodies messing things around... i wonder what great revelations will come as a result of GM tragedies?
    Profits and exploitation- I think you've summed it up prety well!
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    if you take a look at a graph of atomic stability of all the elements there is no doubt that when succeeded fusion WILL create far more energy than is required to initiate it.
    Isnt it easier to just establish that the sunlight is quite warm ?
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    Isnt it easier to just establish that the sunlight is quite warm ?
    True.....but i like a more quantitative approach to things like that
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    You said it yourself, we should learn from the thalydamide mistake and NOT put our efforts into GM food (especially as we would be better spending time on something more problematic such as global warming together with the energy problem (oil doesn't last forever )).
    Well as i said we learnt loads from thalidomide, so we should put our efforts into GM certainly... certainly more than into "global warming"... which i personally don't believe can be significantly atributed to humans... i mean what CFCs were humans releasing and what were humans burning some 20000 years ago when the oceans were over 300 feet lower? The greenhouse effect is 95% water vapour anyway... and without it we'd all be in a siberian environment.

    Unless you can think of a way of controlling variations in the suns output and our orbit then i think you may as well give "finding a solution" to climate changes a rest.
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    (Original post by Ralfskini)
    But tomato shelf-life can be increased by simply adding ethene.
    Just a random point but doesn't ethene decrease shelf life as it promotes fruit ripening? I thought that it is cytokinins which increases shelf life or am I just confused :confused: ?
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    (Original post by Spc_K)
    Well as i said we learnt loads from thalidomide, so we should put our efforts into GM certainly... certainly more than into "global warming"... which i personally don't believe can be significantly atributed to humans... i mean what CFCs were humans releasing and what were humans burning some 20000 years ago when the oceans were over 300 feet lower? The greenhouse effect is 95% water vapour anyway... and without it we'd all be in a siberian environment.

    Unless you can think of a way of controlling variations in the suns output and our orbit then i think you may as well give "finding a solution" to climate changes a rest.
    Well global warming has its advantages up to a certain point: it keeps us out of an ice age (with the help that this just happens to be the time just after an ice age...i'm not that good at oceanography and whatnot so don't ask me about those complications, i only know the basics of those)...but the down side of global warming is that it IS going too far...and it's the risk that currents in the atlantic ocean will just switch off due to this change (curteousy of increased organic gas emissions)...if it DOES switch off we actually go back into an ice age rather than go the way of Venus.
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    Well global warming has its advantages up to a certain point: it keeps us out of an ice age (with the help that this just happens to be the time just after an ice age...i'm not that good at oceanography and whatnot so don't ask me about those complications, i only know the basics of those)...but the down side of global warming is that it IS going too far...and it's the risk that currents in the atlantic ocean will just switch off due to this change (curteousy of increased organic gas emissions)...if it DOES switch off we actually go back into an ice age rather than go the way of Venus.
    I think the main point was that since the variations in solar activity are so unpredictable there is no way of knowing if we make things better or worse when we release CO2 into the athmosfere...
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    To be honest i hadn't though about the possibility that we may want to pump out chemicals and increase greenhouse effect... but i suppose that had i thought it that would be what i meant.

    True, i don't want to lose our lovely warm currents, but i don't really think we can do a damn thing about it, even if we humans hadn't ever existed, the temperatures wouldn't be much different... Less than 0.5% (which ever figures you look at) of the greenhouse effect can be attributed to emissions relating to humans... and there's much more to global temperature than just some greenhouse effect. All in all i doubt we've had more than a 1 in a 1000 effect (at the very most) on the temperatures.
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    don't argue with Spc_K hes right and also happens to agree with my views. Everyone here must have heard of Montsano and its GM products. The irony is that the Americans all eat it unknowingly and they are trying to force Europe to accpet it trhough the WTO. BTW- what about the steel tariffs, why can AMerica have them up for 9 months before we are allowed to impose retaliatory ones and then they just remove them and put them up again.
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    (Original post by Spc_K)
    To be honest i hadn't though about the possibility that we may want to pump out chemicals and increase greenhouse effect... but i suppose that had i thought it that would be what i meant.

    True, i don't want to lose our lovely warm currents, but i don't really think we can do a damn thing about it, even if we humans hadn't ever existed, the temperatures wouldn't be much different... Less than 0.5% (which ever figures you look at) of the greenhouse effect can be attributed to emissions relating to humans... and there's much more to global temperature than just some greenhouse effect. All in all i doubt we've had more than a 1 in a 1000 effect (at the very most) on the temperatures.
    Well i hope you're right because i wouldn't be lying if i said i was a paranoid person at heart (ask adhsur). Not that i fret over this subject everyday.
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    (Original post by king of swords)
    Well i hope you're right because i wouldn't be lying if i said i was a paranoid person at heart (ask adhsur). Not that i fret over this subject everyday.
    I must admit, you are not the only one who is worried. When I think about it , it is actually quite scary that scientists can make viruses from scratch today...
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    (Original post by Jonatan)
    I must admit, you are not the only one who is worried. When I think about it , it is actually quite scary that scientists can make viruses from scratch today...
    isnt it more worrying that even though theyv eradicate smallpox, they have to keep vials of the antibody safe(from which they can backengineer it) in case someone else uses it on them.
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    (Original post by JSM)
    isnt it more worrying that even though theyv eradicate smallpox, they have to keep vials of the antibody safe(from which they can backengineer it) in case someone else uses it on them.
    No because any half decent scientist has a cure for smallpox....if some demented evil case decided to release one of these new viruses....a cure would take a while to filter through i should imagine
 
 
 
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