F584 Transport Economics June 2012

Don't understand why so many people are asking for people's answer's to questions because they didn't understand it. we all studied the topic, you should have notes on it. especially on question 3 - its theory of the firm and one of the basics of the whole exam

Reply 181

tornzy

Original post by Jtn Star

Just to ask, what are you module scores for Economics so far?

F581 - 68 UMS
F582 - 82 UMS
F585 - 72 UMS

therefore to get an a overall, i need to get 98 UMS in transport, whch is, at the moment, looking unlikely

Reply 182

tornzy

Original post by Jtn Star

How are my points?

Its not so much your points that matter, its about whether you actually answered the question. Otherwise, you only get a maximum of Level 2, which is about 5-8 out of 20. Remember, the question did NOT ask for advantages and disadvantages of monopoly providers of transport, which you seemed to have answered. The question clearly stated Discuss the extent to which monopoly provision of transport IS BENEFICIAL TO CONSUMERS AND PRODUCERS.

Reply 183

tornzy

Original post by scott12398

Don't understand why so many people are asking for people's answer's to questions because they didn't understand it. we all studied the topic, you should have notes on it. especially on question 3 - its theory of the firm and one of the basics of the whole exam

Its only because question 3b seemed to trip some people up, so they need to know whether they answered it properly. Even though 3b said 'monopoly' the question required you to think properly in order to answer the question. And looking at peoples responses, they answered it wrong, even though they know what a monopoly is.

Reply 184

Jtn Star

Original post by tornzy

F581 - 68 UMS
F582 - 82 UMS
F585 - 72 UMS

therefore to get an a overall, i need to get 98 UMS in transport, whch is, at the moment, looking unlikely

OMG Look at my module scores. Its just the opposite of yours.

F581 - 82
F582 - 68 (retaken)
F584 - 60 (retaken)

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 185

Jtn Star

Original post by tornzy

Its only because question 3b seemed to trip some people up, so they need to know whether they answered it properly. Even though 3b said 'monopoly' the question required you to think properly in order to answer the question. And looking at peoples responses, they answered it wrong, even though they know what a monopoly is.

I have related my arguments to producers and consumers by explaining how a monopoly provision of transport will affect producers and consumers. Is it okay?

Reply 186

Hicky

1

Original post by tornzy

Its only because question 3b seemed to trip some people up, so they need to know whether they answered it properly. Even though 3b said 'monopoly' the question required you to think properly in order to answer the question. And looking at peoples responses, they answered it wrong, even though they know what a monopoly is.

Why are you telling people they are wrong just after an exam, surely that's pretty disheartening

Reply 187

Mani Katti

2

Original post by blackstarz245

Yh i was actually considering 4, but i felt i would have repeated myself so i did 2. I think I got full marks for the first page, my definition was 'the five firm concentration ratio is the five largest firms in the industry with the combined market share of a certain percentage.' for the second one, i got 85.9% and for the 2 mark market concentration, i said that if the two airlines merge, they will have a new market share of 20.1% This means that they will have the second largest market share in the airline industry after British Airways, who have 37.4%.
overall i think i got 22 for section A and 22/23 for section B

im worried about unit 4 though :frown:

I did repeat myself so much in part 4)a :L. Ironically I didn't choose 2 because I thought I'd repeat myself in the a) part too much xD. The forecasting wasn't the best essay title in the world but it was at least less repetetive than derived demand >.>. I think we got vaguely similar answers, except for the 2 mark market concentration one where I did the calculation of 20.1% and explained that this would increase the overall conentration ratio and decrease contestability rather than state the new place...hope what I did was right D:.

I don't understand how to actually do well in F585, it seems to be so arbitrary that it just boils down to good luck with the stimulus and the questions on the day being ones you've done to at least some degree beforehand...

Reply 188

Redolent

10

Original post by tornzy

the question did NOT ask for advantages and disadvantages of monopoly providers of transport, which you seemed to have answered. The question clearly stated Discuss the extent to which monopoly provision of transport IS BENEFICIAL TO CONSUMERS AND PRODUCERS.

But aren't those two questions fundamentally quite similar? If you comment generally on advantages and disadvantages of monopoly providers of transport, surely you will cover the "consumer" side of the debate quite thoroughly? I didn't think there was much to be said on the producer side so I only mentioned producers on a couple of occasions

I can tell already the marking for this paper is going to be horribly subjective

Reply 189

Jtn Star

Original post by Redolent

But aren't those two questions fundamentally quite similar? If you comment generally on advantages and disadvantages of monopoly providers of transport, surely you will cover the "consumer" side of the debate quite thoroughly? I didn't think there was much to be said on the producer side so I only mentioned producers on a couple of occasions

I can tell already the marking for this paper is going to be horribly subjective

I absolutely agree with you.

Reply 190

kingshan16

I know you guys are gonna tell me to shut up. Whatever happened, happened. The thing with enomomics is you never know what may seem right to some may seem wrong to other. From experience I can tell you last year I did the F581 paper on the one about p'eur tea and in the last questions it mentioned something about subdidy and p'eur tea and everyone talked about how subsidy would benefit p'eur tea but I on the other hand talked about subdidys in general and just a little amount on lines on p'eur tea and guess what I got a A.

Everyone will have different answers as the person above said it will be subjective. Like for example one on my point in the exam was how for example a monopoly in rail has been benefit for socity e.g consumers due to reduced negative externailites - which I think is right but many said it was wrong. So you never know man.

Reply 191

scott12398

Original post by Hicky

Why are you telling people they are wrong just after an exam, surely that's pretty disheartening

hey hickfordman.

Reply 192

scott12398

Original post by tornzy

Its only because question 3b seemed to trip some people up, so they need to know whether they answered it properly. Even though 3b said 'monopoly' the question required you to think properly in order to answer the question. And looking at peoples responses, they answered it wrong, even though they know what a monopoly is.

i think that answering the advantages and disadvantages does answer the question to be honest. i personally explicitly mentioned consumer + producer welfare etc aswell as giving ads and disads of a monopoly.

Reply 193

tornzy

Original post by Redolent

But aren't those two questions fundamentally quite similar? If you comment generally on advantages and disadvantages of monopoly providers of transport, surely you will cover the "consumer" side of the debate quite thoroughly? I didn't think there was much to be said on the producer side so I only mentioned producers on a couple of occasions

I can tell already the marking for this paper is going to be horribly subjective

Technically no they aren't really similar, although they do both cover the same aspects. And either way, the examiner isn't going to see the questions as fundamentally similar, i think what will be subjective is the examiners opinion on whether you have equally been able to talk about whether it benefits consumers AND producers, which im worried about. Also, the ability to score 20/20 is going to be VERY VERY subjective, you just have to hope for a lenient examiner.

If a monopoly is dynamically efficient, we all know it means that they spend money on R&D, such as providing more fuel-efficient buses. However, if the prices for these bus fares rise because these bus operators have spent to much money, this is not going to benefit consumers or producers as there would be no incentive for a consumer to sit in a brand new bus if its expensive to do so, they'll simply continue using their cars. Also, producers would not be making less profits if this happens, so it isn't beneficial to them.

My point is, even if you are going to say that monopolies benefit consumers as they are dynamically efficient, you would have to explain that monopolies would have to reduce their prices in order for it to benefit consumers and producers, which is what the examiner would be looking for :smile:

Reply 194

tornzy

Original post by Jtn Star

I have related my arguments to producers and consumers by explaining how a monopoly provision of transport will affect producers and consumers. Is it okay?

Yeah definitely, so long as you have related it to whether it will benefit consumers and producers, you've answered the question

Reply 195

tornzy

Original post by kingshan16

I know you guys are gonna tell me to shut up. Whatever happened, happened. The thing with enomomics is you never know what may seem right to some may seem wrong to other. From experience I can tell you last year I did the F581 paper on the one about p'eur tea and in the last questions it mentioned something about subdidy and p'eur tea and everyone talked about how subsidy would benefit p'eur tea but I on the other hand talked about subdidys in general and just a little amount on lines on p'eur tea and guess what I got a A.

Everyone will have different answers as the person above said it will be subjective. Like for example one on my point in the exam was how for example a monopoly in rail has been benefit for society e.g consumers due to reduced negative externailites - which I think is right but many said it was wrong. So you never know man.

You got an A because you were able to answer all of the questions very well, rather than on luck. What I think will be subjective on that particular question is whether you were equally able to discuss whether a monopoly provision of transport is beneficial to both producers and consumers and I think the ability of you being able to get 20/20 on that question is likely to be VERY subjective, you just have to hope for a lenient examiner. :smile:

Reply 196

tornzy

Original post by Hicky

Why are you telling people they are wrong just after an exam, surely that's pretty disheartening

Im not telling people that they are wrong, I am simply telling people where they went wrong.

The reason why I know this is because a similar question has come up which said: 'Discuss the extent to which deregulation of the bus industry has been beneficial' and I also just discussed the advantages and disadvantages of deregulation. I gave it to both of my economics teachers and they both said that, although I concluded it well, it would only achieve level two as i haven't answered the question properly. I was not convinced by this and i even paid for an OCR chief examiner to mark it - they gave me 8/20 for it. I'm not trying to put anyone down,I just don't want people making the same mistakes as I did. Surely that's justifiable isn't it? :smile:

Reply 197

Redolent

10

Original post by tornzy

Technically no they aren't really similar, although they do both cover the same aspects. And either way, the examiner isn't going to see the questions as fundamentally similar, i think what will be subjective is the examiners opinion on whether you have equally been able to talk about whether it benefits consumers AND producers, which im worried about.

Well I definitely didn't cover them "equally". My answer focused mostly on consumers, and what the benefits and drawbacks are to them, and then producers to a much lesser extent (e.g. saying natural monopolies are beneficial to producers as government subsidies will help them cover their costs). I think that if the object of the question was explore benefits and drawbacks for consumers, and then explore benefits and drawbacks for producers, it goes from being the two sided discussion normally expected at A2 Economics to almost being a four sided discussion and there is an unrealistic amount for the average candidate to cover - but I'm sure there are people here who would know about that more than I would. It would be very cruel of them and I think, and hope, they will accordingly be very lenient over this (possibly) flawed approach that many candidates took. By the sounds of it the majority of candidates took the simpler approach, and I don't think they could justify limiting the majority of candidates to 5-8 marks.

I see your points though. I did attempt to apply my answer to the consumer/producer context, but probably didn't emphasise it enough, so it's down the examiner's judgement whether to penalise me. Just going to have to hope for the best I guess, there's nothing I can do about it now. Plenty of upcoming exams to stress over instead :s-smilie:

Thanks for clarifying though!

Reply 198

Redolent

10

Original post by tornzy

The reason why I know this is because a similar question has come up which said: 'Discuss the extent to which deregulation of the bus industry has been beneficial' and I also just discussed the advantages and disadvantages of deregulation. I gave it to both of my economics teachers and they both said that, although I concluded it well, it would only achieve level two as i haven't answered the question properly.

Do you mean you answered the question without referring to the bus industry? I think that might be different because "bus industry" implies a very specialised approach is needed whereas "consumers and producers" seems a lot more general

Reply 199

tornzy

A similar question came up a while ago on the f584 paper which said: 'Discuss the extent to which deregulation of the bus industry has been beneficial' and I also just discussed the advantages and disadvantages of deregulation. I gave it to both of my economics teachers and they both said that, although I concluded it well, it would only achieve level two as i haven't answered the question properly. I was not convinced by this and i even paid for an OCR chief examiner to mark it - they gave me 8/20 for it, because i didn't answer the question. This is why i'm worried that if people did not talk about how it benefits producers and consumers, they may, God forbid, not get the mark they deserve.

However, if most candidates did take this approach, the examiners cannot penalize everybody, like you said, so they would have no choice but to put the grade boundaries down. I'm hoping we all did well on this paper anyway because it was a bit more difficult than normal - I personally think its been the hardest so far :smile:

F584 Transport Economics June 2012

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