Abortion debate closed down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FD_IfjlAs
I find this totally unacceptable and disgraceful.
Men have every freedom to talk about abortion, as they are needed in the conception.
I find is sad and distressing that all debate on abortion is curtailed and shut down by the people who support it. Even though it is the murder of babies by their own mothers. I can not longer accept this mass genocide of 185,000 unborn babies every year in this country. You know why many of them are murdered because they have disabilities, like those I have.
This is what happens when the secular government attacks Protestant morality. Murder never ending murder of people unable to protect or defend themselves. If I could change one law it would be on abortion. That abortion is illegal, unless rape is proven.
The retreat of the Protestant faith must end, as must abortion.
I find this totally unacceptable and disgraceful.
Men have every freedom to talk about abortion, as they are needed in the conception.
I find is sad and distressing that all debate on abortion is curtailed and shut down by the people who support it. Even though it is the murder of babies by their own mothers. I can not longer accept this mass genocide of 185,000 unborn babies every year in this country. You know why many of them are murdered because they have disabilities, like those I have.
This is what happens when the secular government attacks Protestant morality. Murder never ending murder of people unable to protect or defend themselves. If I could change one law it would be on abortion. That abortion is illegal, unless rape is proven.
The retreat of the Protestant faith must end, as must abortion.
Scroll to see replies
Do you also disagree with contraception?
And out of interest, on what basis do you disagree with abortion? What if, for example, the woman could be at serious health risks if she gave birth to the child?
And out of interest, on what basis do you disagree with abortion? What if, for example, the woman could be at serious health risks if she gave birth to the child?
Original post by william walker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FD_IfjlAs
I find this totally unacceptable and disgraceful.
Men have every freedom to talk about abortion, as they are needed in the conception.
I find is sad and distressing that all debate on abortion is curtailed and shut down by the people who support it. Even though it is the murder of babies by their own mothers. I can not longer accept this mass genocide of 185,000 unborn babies every year in this country. You know why many of them are murdered because they have disabilities, like those I have.
This is what happens when the secular government attacks Protestant morality. Murder never ending murder of people unable to protect or defend themselves. If I could change one law it would be on abortion. That abortion is illegal, unless rape is proven.
The retreat of the Protestant faith must end, as must abortion.
I find this totally unacceptable and disgraceful.
Men have every freedom to talk about abortion, as they are needed in the conception.
I find is sad and distressing that all debate on abortion is curtailed and shut down by the people who support it. Even though it is the murder of babies by their own mothers. I can not longer accept this mass genocide of 185,000 unborn babies every year in this country. You know why many of them are murdered because they have disabilities, like those I have.
This is what happens when the secular government attacks Protestant morality. Murder never ending murder of people unable to protect or defend themselves. If I could change one law it would be on abortion. That abortion is illegal, unless rape is proven.
The retreat of the Protestant faith must end, as must abortion.
Do you not feel that if the parents feel that they cannot provide the care a baby needs or that the baby will suffer during it's life ( if it's been proven) then it might be better so the baby does not suffer a vilont or painful death
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by jonathanemptage
Do you not feel that if the parents feel that they cannot provide the care a baby needs or that the baby will suffer during it's life ( if it's been proven) then it might be better so the baby does not suffer a vilont or painful death
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
If the mother is unable to take care of the baby she should put it up for adoption. Not murder the person. Also two people will have no problem looking after a baby, as well if their family helps them. The problem is with bastards, children born out of wedlock which the family wants nothing to do with. In any case adoption is better than murder.
How are they going to prove it, they said I wouldn't be able to run when I was born, that by the time I was 20 I wouldn't be able to walk. They have no idea what I was capable of doing to improve my life after I was born with the help of my parents. However some evil genocidal doctor would have taken the opportunity to cut me up because I had a disability. This is evil and sick.
And what if it was rape 
Brendan's article was great.
I'm not greatly exercised by the abortion issue, but we shouldn't be seeing debates shut down (such as this one in Oxford), least of all because of the sex of the speakers, or people seeking to ban pro-life societies from freshers' fairs (as happened this year at Cambridge). We shouldn't have bands of feral students yelling at government ministers to '**** off' rather than hearing and challenging their case (e.g. here http://cambridge.tab.co.uk/2014/03/07/****-off-willetts-cambridge-students-tell-uni-minister-to-do-one/). Nigel Farage was forced to cancel a talk at Cambridge this year because so many people were promising to protest. Things like this happen all the time, and they happen everywhere. Some student unions even ban pop music, as Brendan points out in his article.
Left-wing student politics is deeply pathetic, as are most of those involved in it.
I'm not greatly exercised by the abortion issue, but we shouldn't be seeing debates shut down (such as this one in Oxford), least of all because of the sex of the speakers, or people seeking to ban pro-life societies from freshers' fairs (as happened this year at Cambridge). We shouldn't have bands of feral students yelling at government ministers to '**** off' rather than hearing and challenging their case (e.g. here http://cambridge.tab.co.uk/2014/03/07/****-off-willetts-cambridge-students-tell-uni-minister-to-do-one/). Nigel Farage was forced to cancel a talk at Cambridge this year because so many people were promising to protest. Things like this happen all the time, and they happen everywhere. Some student unions even ban pop music, as Brendan points out in his article.
Left-wing student politics is deeply pathetic, as are most of those involved in it.
Original post by abbiemac
Do you also disagree with contraception?
And out of interest, on what basis do you disagree with abortion? What if, for example, the woman could be at serious health risks if she gave birth to the child?
And out of interest, on what basis do you disagree with abortion? What if, for example, the woman could be at serious health risks if she gave birth to the child?
I profoundly disagree with having sex outside wedlock. However if people are going to have sex and aren't married so don't want to have a child then they should use contraception. I must also add that contraception and abortion are obviously different things and should be debated separately.
My disagreement isn't religious if that's what you are thinking. My disgust for abortion comes from the people who support, who pays for it and the people who are murdered in the name of abortion. Mainly people with disabilities like myself.
What about caesarean section? I remember a case in Ireland where a woman wanted an abortion but was refused so she died as did her baby. In those cases it seems lawful to kill the baby to save the woman, so they don't both die. However it would have to be prove after such an action is taken that the doctors in question and the mother acted within the law. In cases where the baby is killed when the woman was raped. The doctor and woman would have to prove they acted within the law.
I don't want women to die in illegal abortion or be forced give birth after being raped. However I understand that women will died because of unsafe abortions of abortion is made illegal, but that must be compared with 185,000 abortions every years.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Rock Fan
And what if it was rape
In the case of rape abortion should be legal but the doctor and woman would have to prove they acted lawfully.
Original post by william walker
In the case of rape abortion should be legal but the doctor and woman would have to prove they acted lawfully.
Lets say a women is raped. Would the abortion be before or after the trial?
I'm only against discriminate abortion. I have absolutely nothing against indiscriminate abortion. The foetus isn't conscious so it isn't murder.
That guy definitely sounds like he's a member of TSR.
But as someone who actually disagrees personally with abortion (but who understands and accepts that we need legal access to abortion, otherwise women are put in danger) I do agree with the woman he's speaking too. Men are all too quick to discuss issues that directly involve women as though they have more experience of it (in the same way that the rich are all too quick to discuss the 'poor' as though they have lived that experience). I'm tired of unaffected people debating topics just for an intellectual debate when they actually have a real effect on the lives of people. We (women, those on low incomes, the list goes on..) should not just be topics for debate.
And I'm still listening to this guy and he sounds like an absolute ****.
But as someone who actually disagrees personally with abortion (but who understands and accepts that we need legal access to abortion, otherwise women are put in danger) I do agree with the woman he's speaking too. Men are all too quick to discuss issues that directly involve women as though they have more experience of it (in the same way that the rich are all too quick to discuss the 'poor' as though they have lived that experience). I'm tired of unaffected people debating topics just for an intellectual debate when they actually have a real effect on the lives of people. We (women, those on low incomes, the list goes on..) should not just be topics for debate.
And I'm still listening to this guy and he sounds like an absolute ****.
Original post by william walker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FD_IfjlAs
I find this totally unacceptable and disgraceful.
Men have every freedom to talk about abortion, as they are needed in the conception.
I find is sad and distressing that all debate on abortion is curtailed and shut down by the people who support it. Even though it is the murder of babies by their own mothers. I can not longer accept this mass genocide of 185,000 unborn babies every year in this country. You know why many of them are murdered because they have disabilities, like those I have.
This is what happens when the secular government attacks Protestant morality. Murder never ending murder of people unable to protect or defend themselves. If I could change one law it would be on abortion. That abortion is illegal, unless rape is proven.
The retreat of the Protestant faith must end, as must abortion.
I find this totally unacceptable and disgraceful.
Men have every freedom to talk about abortion, as they are needed in the conception.
I find is sad and distressing that all debate on abortion is curtailed and shut down by the people who support it. Even though it is the murder of babies by their own mothers. I can not longer accept this mass genocide of 185,000 unborn babies every year in this country. You know why many of them are murdered because they have disabilities, like those I have.
This is what happens when the secular government attacks Protestant morality. Murder never ending murder of people unable to protect or defend themselves. If I could change one law it would be on abortion. That abortion is illegal, unless rape is proven.
The retreat of the Protestant faith must end, as must abortion.
I don't like your logic. Abortion is awful unless it was rape? Surely it would still qualify as murder by the way you have expressed your opinion. So if abortions are okay after rape but not sex then your opinion actually stems through responsibility and accepting consequences, where if you were raped you may commit murder?
Either way the child is unwanted, in most circumstances, and abortion would stop the pregnancy so I don't get how anyone can say it's murder then say certain circumstances are allowed.
Original post by Aj12
Lets say a women is raped. Would the abortion be before or after the trial?
Depends on the case.
If the woman goes to the police and someone is changed with the crime, then I would think the abortion would be lawful. However if the rape isn't reported or can't be proven at the time when the abortion is undertaken the doctor and woman would have to prove they acted lawfully. Also if a woman is raped and because of that has an abortion the rapist would also be changed with murder and have that added to their indictment.
Original post by Abbie :)
I don't like your logic. Abortion is awful unless it was rape? Surely it would still qualify as murder by the way you have expressed your opinion. So if abortions are okay after rape but not sex then your opinion actually stems through responsibility and accepting consequences, where if you were raped you may commit murder?
Either way the child is unwanted, in most circumstances, and abortion would stop the pregnancy so I don't get how anyone can say it's murder then say certain circumstances are allowed.
Either way the child is unwanted, in most circumstances, and abortion would stop the pregnancy so I don't get how anyone can say it's murder then say certain circumstances are allowed.
I my view abortion shouldn't happen and women who are raped shouldn't have abortions. However a crime has been committed against a person, the guilt for the consequences is with the person who committed the crime, not the victim of the crime. There is a difference between my views and the law.
So in another case if a person is attempting to rob a shop and the shopkeeper gets his gun and shoots at the robber, then shoots a shopper in the attempted to stop the robber, the robber is held responsible for the shooting. As the robber initiated the events with a criminal action.
Original post by Chlorophile
I'm only against discriminate abortion. I have absolutely nothing against indiscriminate abortion. The foetus isn't conscious so it isn't murder.
Then the question is what is consciousness? It is murder because it is ending a human life.
Original post by william walker
Then the question is what is consciousness? It is murder because it is ending a human life.
Technically, murder is the unlawful killing of another human being. Even if you decide that a foetus is a human being, it's still not technically murder.
Original post by Chlorophile
I'm only against discriminate abortion. I have absolutely nothing against indiscriminate abortion. The foetus isn't conscious so it isn't murder.
By discriminate abortion do you solely mean abortion based on gender or additional factors such as disability?
Original post by william walker
I my view abortion shouldn't happen and women who are raped shouldn't have abortions. However a crime has been committed against a person, the guilt for the consequences is with the person who committed the crime, not the victim of the crime. There is a difference between my views and the law.
So in another case if a person is attempting to rob a shop and the shopkeeper gets his gun and shoots at the robber, then shoots a shopper in the attempted to stop the robber, the robber is held responsible for the shooting. As the robber initiated the events with a criminal action.
So in another case if a person is attempting to rob a shop and the shopkeeper gets his gun and shoots at the robber, then shoots a shopper in the attempted to stop the robber, the robber is held responsible for the shooting. As the robber initiated the events with a criminal action.
So you are saying that following rape you condone the 'murder'?
Original post by mscaffrey
That guy definitely sounds like he's a member of TSR.
But as someone who actually disagrees personally with abortion (but who understands and accepts that we need legal access to abortion, otherwise women are put in danger) I do agree with the woman he's speaking too. Men are all too quick to discuss issues that directly involve women as though they have more experience of it (in the same way that the rich are all too quick to discuss the 'poor' as though they have lived that experience). I'm tired of unaffected people debating topics just for an intellectual debate when they actually have a real effect on the lives of people. We (women, those on low incomes, the list goes on..) should not just be topics for debate.
And I'm still listening to this guy and he sounds like an absolute ****.
But as someone who actually disagrees personally with abortion (but who understands and accepts that we need legal access to abortion, otherwise women are put in danger) I do agree with the woman he's speaking too. Men are all too quick to discuss issues that directly involve women as though they have more experience of it (in the same way that the rich are all too quick to discuss the 'poor' as though they have lived that experience). I'm tired of unaffected people debating topics just for an intellectual debate when they actually have a real effect on the lives of people. We (women, those on low incomes, the list goes on..) should not just be topics for debate.
And I'm still listening to this guy and he sounds like an absolute ****.
Correct me if I am wrong, but we were all growing inside a women at some point? So we all have the freedom to talking about other people who could have murdered us at that point and if they should have been allowed to do that.
You seem to put all your worries into the women without thinking about the person she and a doctor can murder for whatever reason they like.
Original post by 'Ello Dave!
By discriminate abortion do you solely mean abortion based on gender or additional factors such as disability?
On any factor, including gender and disability. In really extreme cases like a disease that would cause unbearable pain or a permanent vegetative state for the child then I think aborting on the basis of disability would definitely be justified but for disabilities which will still give the child a reasonable quality of life, I don't agree that abortion should be allowed.
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