If you're for gay rights surely you should be for incest?
I would just like to make it known that I am completely for equal rights for gay people in every way.
But it's just something I've been thinking about. Surely if you're for gay rights then you must be for the rights of those who wish to be in an incestuous relationship?
Let me lay down my reasoning for this.
Gay people:
Over 16,18 it's their choice/Naturally attracted to people of the same gender/with a condom sex is safe (to a degree)/Their choice who they fall in love with/They're not hurting anybody.
People who want to be involved in an incestuous relationship: (assuming they will abstain from having children)
Over 16,18 it's their choice/Naturally attracted to brother,sister,mother,father/With a condom sex is safe (to a degree)/Their choice who they fall in love with/They're not hurting anybody/Since people are talking about condoms breaking lets say if that ever did happen they'd take precautions against a child being born.
--------------------
Surely then when laid out like this if you are FOR gay rights because you believe it's their right to be in a relationship they want to be in then you'd have to be exuding some sort of prejudice or phobia if you were not for the rights of those who wanted to take part in an incest based relationship?
I'm also interested to hear if there are any gay members of TSR your opinions on this topic.
But it's just something I've been thinking about. Surely if you're for gay rights then you must be for the rights of those who wish to be in an incestuous relationship?
Let me lay down my reasoning for this.
Gay people:
Over 16,18 it's their choice/Naturally attracted to people of the same gender/with a condom sex is safe (to a degree)/Their choice who they fall in love with/They're not hurting anybody.
People who want to be involved in an incestuous relationship: (assuming they will abstain from having children)
Over 16,18 it's their choice/Naturally attracted to brother,sister,mother,father/With a condom sex is safe (to a degree)/Their choice who they fall in love with/They're not hurting anybody/Since people are talking about condoms breaking lets say if that ever did happen they'd take precautions against a child being born.
--------------------
Surely then when laid out like this if you are FOR gay rights because you believe it's their right to be in a relationship they want to be in then you'd have to be exuding some sort of prejudice or phobia if you were not for the rights of those who wanted to take part in an incest based relationship?
I'm also interested to hear if there are any gay members of TSR your opinions on this topic.
(edited 9 years ago)
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"Be for" sounds wrong to start with, "accept" would be a better word in my opinion before you even get started.
Original post by Penguinfarts
"Be for" sounds wrong to start with, "accept" would be a better word in my opinion before you even get started.
Okay, well that aside what is your opinion on this?
I think the main issue is the genetic risks associated with incest. The human body itself releases hormones and smells and all that good stuff to deter you from inbreeding and limiting natural genetic variation, so it's natural that the idea is repulsive to the majority of us.
Also, even with condoms it is close to impossible to guarantee that there is no risk of pregnancy (and therefore a potentially messed up child). On the other hand, I hear it's pretty damn easy for homosexuals to avoid getting pregnant.
Also, even with condoms it is close to impossible to guarantee that there is no risk of pregnancy (and therefore a potentially messed up child). On the other hand, I hear it's pretty damn easy for homosexuals to avoid getting pregnant.
You've forgotten the fact that incest can cause harm. Incest increases the chance of children inheriting dangerous genetic diseases that are normally recessive but have a greater chance of being expressed in children within families because related people are more likely to have similar genes.
Original post by Chlorophile
You've forgotten the fact that incest can cause harm. Incest increases the chance of children inheriting dangerous genetic diseases that are normally recessive but have a greater chance of being expressed in children within families because related people are more likely to have similar genes.
I haven't forgotten that at all you've merely missed out the part in red in the OP.
Original post by Sid99
I haven't forgotten that at all you've merely missed out the part in red in the OP.
Okay sure... but given that most couples are going to have children, it's kinda difficult to conditionally say "Incestuous relationships are fine... if you remain sterile".
Original post by Zaffre
I think the main issue is the genetic risks associated with incest. The human body itself releases hormones and smells and all that good stuff to deter you from inbreeding and limiting natural genetic variation, so it's natural that the idea is repulsive to the majority of us.
Also, even with condoms it is close to impossible to guarantee that there is no risk of pregnancy (and therefore a potentially messed up child). On the other hand, I hear it's pretty damn easy for homosexuals to avoid getting pregnant.
Also, even with condoms it is close to impossible to guarantee that there is no risk of pregnancy (and therefore a potentially messed up child). On the other hand, I hear it's pretty damn easy for homosexuals to avoid getting pregnant.
It's also natural that the idea of homosexuality is repulsive to a lot of people, yet it's not their choice.
I've put in red that they will abstain from having children. I've also edited in now that they will take some precautions if the condom ever does break.
Original post by Chlorophile
Okay sure... but given that most couples are going to have children, it's kinda difficult to conditionally say "Incestuous relationships are fine... if you remain sterile".
But we're not talking about most couples. We're comparing gay couples who can't have children with people who if they were to take part in incest would agree to idea of adoption etc.
Original post by Sid99
It's also natural that the idea of homosexuality is repulsive to a lot of people, yet it's not their choice.
I've put in red that they will abstain from having children. I've also edited in now that they will take some precautions if the condom ever does break.
I've put in red that they will abstain from having children. I've also edited in now that they will take some precautions if the condom ever does break.
But that's a lot of "If"s and "But"s. I don't really have any problem in principle if someone decided to have an incestuous relationship (although I wouldn't be able to help finding it incredibly weird) but you've got to understand that it's not really that easy to say "I'm fine with this if..." and then roll out a huge list of conditions.
Original post by Sid99
But we're not talking about most couples. We're comparing gay couples who can't have children with people who if they were to take part in incest would agree to idea of adoption etc.
Then fine, you're right. But this is a really niche example, not a general statement about homosexuality and incest.
Whilst it's something I would never ever want to be involved in myself, I wouldn't actually mind if incestuous relationships were legalised.
Original post by Zaffre
I think the main issue is the genetic risks associated with incest. The human body itself releases hormones and smells and all that good stuff to deter you from inbreeding and limiting natural genetic variation, so it's natural that the idea is repulsive to the majority of us.
Also, even with condoms it is close to impossible to guarantee that there is no risk of pregnancy (and therefore a potentially messed up child). On the other hand, I hear it's pretty damn easy for homosexuals to avoid getting pregnant.
Also, even with condoms it is close to impossible to guarantee that there is no risk of pregnancy (and therefore a potentially messed up child). On the other hand, I hear it's pretty damn easy for homosexuals to avoid getting pregnant.
Original post by Chlorophile
You've forgotten the fact that incest can cause harm. Incest increases the chance of children inheriting dangerous genetic diseases that are normally recessive but have a greater chance of being expressed in children within families because related people are more likely to have similar genes.
By this logic, do you also think people with genetic predispositions to certain conditions should not be allowed to have sex?
Original post by joker12345
By this logic, do you also think people with genetic predispositions to certain conditions should not be allowed to have sex?
I didn't make any kind of judgement, I simply corrected a mistake that was in the original post (not having read the red text)? The fact that incestuous sex is more harmful on average than non-incestuous sex is a fact, it's not a moral verdict.
Original post by Sid99
I've put in red that they will abstain from having children. I've also edited in now that they will take some precautions if the condom ever does break.
Unfortunately, it is not that easy to control. Teenagers are educated to prevent pregnancy and take action against it, yet it still happens all the time.
I'm not entirely against the idea - I can see where you're coming from. I just don't believe that it's a realistic or obtainable preposition. Keep it within Game of Thrones.
I agree with the OP. It's unfair IMO to keep incest illehal. I mean, I find it weird, but all that should impact is my choice to not have one, not ban others from having one.
How on earth do you regulate whether an incestuous relationship was genuinely by "choice" when there's such great potential for subtle coercion?
I'd argue the mental ramifications of this are much more severe than the physical ones and I'm really surprised nobody else has picked up on this - nowadays the genetic/physical issues can be very easily avoided through proper contraception; however the risk for mental abuse simply because people don't want to "disappoint" their family is ridiculous.
Don't even get me started on ye olde chestnut of girls with "daddy issues". This'd put a whole new spin on it.
I'd argue the mental ramifications of this are much more severe than the physical ones and I'm really surprised nobody else has picked up on this - nowadays the genetic/physical issues can be very easily avoided through proper contraception; however the risk for mental abuse simply because people don't want to "disappoint" their family is ridiculous.
Don't even get me started on ye olde chestnut of girls with "daddy issues". This'd put a whole new spin on it.
(edited 9 years ago)
There's a power dynamic involved that is not present in a normal homosexual relationship
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Original post by SerLorasTyrell
There's a power dynamic involved that is not present in a normal homosexual relationship
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Posted from TSR Mobile
This. 10x.
Original post by Kaiju
This. 10x.
There is space for abuse in everything I'm just referring to if someone just raised them as a chi.d and then they fell in love with each other - also what about brothers and sisters then, it isn't the same kind of situation as parents and child?
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