My name is not "Hey Baby"

1) Anyone calling OP sexist doesn't understand that many people regard sexiness as an attitude derived largely from charisma and behaviour, as much as physical appearance. There's also a difference between finding the face appealing and finding the body appealing.

2) If I see one more person blame women for dressing how they want for getting harassed, I will punch something. To compare a human being to property (in the first place, let alone to justify a point) is ridiculous - and also leaving one's door unlocked does not mean one was asking for it. The blame is always on the one breaking the law. If people were discouraged from harassment instead of being told, 'oh it's her fault if she's dressing badly!' or 'oh it's his fault, he's in prison he deserves to be raped!' is pretty damn terrible and frankly ridiculous.

'Oh, honey, you were raped? Better cover yourself up in future, sweetheart, it's all your fault, a man can't control his impulses around you, so it's your fault and not his!' Is a common mindset and is restrictive and insensitive towards the woman and contributes to a negative stereotype of men being brutish and sexually driven (and makes those very few men that are think that it's OK.)

So yes, your attitudes do matter. Everybody is entitled to think as they please, as I am entitled to point out that it contributes to unhealthy stereotypes and mental views.

(By the way a feminist is any man or woman who believes in equal rights for everyone regardless of sex and often gender to boot. Self-defined feminists and radical feminists may often exhibit bad behaviours, but most people are in fact 'feminists'. For the record I do not define myself as feminist, as this word is female-centric and undermines the suffering caused to men by gender-stereotyping and double standards, suffering which should never be ignored and should be treated as seriously as women, even if it is considered to be 'less common' (since men rarely report these things due to being forced by society to ignore their emotions and sadness, in case they are mocked!))

Just my two boondollars.

Being a bit overweight and wearing loose clothes, glasses and no make up seems to do it.

No one blames the victim. They just tell them to take precautions and *some* women start screaming and crying about victim blaming and how they should be able to dress however they want whenever they want despite the fact that men can't do that without facing certain consequences.

As for this "you can't pick and choose...", yes one most certainly can pick and choose, that is entirely the way it works, in fact, that's the basic presumption upon which the woman dresses and lives every aspect of her life, quite properly.

British men are ignorant and sexist. Fact. Feel sorry for the women

Oh so someone might get a bit lairy if a man wears pink. Therefore it's totally okay to blame women for showing a bit of boob, therefore removing all blame from the man, because 'she didn't try hard enough'. So as well as being raped, thus humiliated and traumatised and likely alienated as being 'spoiled', instead of being given help she will be told that because she wore that shirt and put on some make-up to like how she looked in the mirror, she was clearly asking for it. Because all women who dress up to look good are doing so expressly to get attention from men, and even if they are, boo hoo if it's forced on them when they're clearly not interested!

Everyone is expected to dress a certain way, it's society. Nobody is complaining that people have to dress in a certain manner to get by - a woman can wear trousers, but a man is likely to be catcalled and beaten if he has the audacity to wear a skirt. And everyone will blame him either, for breaking societal rules. Does that mean that, because he wore a skirt, he deserves to be beaten, because he didn't take the necessary precautions? He put on a little piece of fabric one day, and suddenly he deserves to be beaten and maybe even raped himself (as a lot of rapes against men are as 'punishment' and for 'dominance').

If you think that, because he could avoid it by suppressing himself, that he deserves to be beaten... then you and I will never agree. If you think a woman deserves rape, deserves molestation, deserves lewd comments that make her uncomfortable in her body (to which she is not allowed to protest even in a civil manner), if you think that showing some cleavage and her thighs means that you have a ticket to violate her, then, well, maybe I am screaming and crying. And I will continue throwing this tantrum until people listen.

No matter the crime, the blame is on the perpetrator. There are very, very few exceptions to this in my eyes and these are much more extreme and complicated than, 'she was dressing provocatively, I couldn't control myself because clearly I have no free will and she is a devil-slut'.

You have made two major mistakes in my eyes.
a) Stated that the only people who decry rape culture are female and,
b) Used the words 'screaming and crying' to imply hysteria just because someone doesn't agree with you.

Yes, precautions can be taken. So because a woman doesn't, she deserves what she gets?

EDIT: tl;dr, saying a woman could have prevented it is victim blaming. Saying it isn't doesn't mean it isn't. It is. And even if it weren't, it's insensitive and completely useless. What's she going to do, go back in time and wear a better top? Many rapes aren't sexually motivated, by the way.

No, no, no! That's the typical knee-jerk reaction that doesn't understand what the point is. The point is that the real world is not ideal - we know there are rapists out there just as we know there are robbers out there. So we don't dress provocatively just as we don't leave our houses unlocked. In both cases we shouldn't HAVE to act this way, but in both cases we would be seen as having made an error if we left our house unlocked or wore provocative clothing. You're not "asking for it" if you leave your house unlocked, but you're certainly acting irresponsibly if you want to keep your possessions. And if you are raped or robbed, it is in neither case the victim's fault but entirely the rapist's/burglar's fault, but we can see that taking the precaution would have been sensible given the actual state of the world. (in rape cases this doesn't quite work because provocative clothing is not linked highly to rape incidence, but the point stands better for sexual harassment in general)

The only reason people see the clothing in sexual harassment situation differently to the burglary analogy is that many people have an obsession with appearances, and want to pick and choose who is "allowed" to approach them or enjoy their appearance, which will never be possible. Of course actions towards educating people on sexual harassment and rape to reduce the number of people who perpetrate the crimes are always good, but until society is perfect it makes sense to dress less provocatively if you find that not doing so makes you feel uncomfortable due to any harassment in social situations.

Oh so someone might get a bit lairy if a man wears pink. Therefore it's totally okay to blame women for showing a bit of boob, therefore removing all blame from the man, because 'she didn't try hard enough'. So as well as being raped, thus humiliated and traumatised and likely alienated as being 'spoiled', instead of being given help she will be told that because she wore that shirt and put on some make-up to like how she looked in the mirror, she was clearly asking for it. Because all women who dress up to look good are doing so expressly to get attention from men, and even if they are, boo hoo if it's forced on them when they're clearly not interested!

Everyone is expected to dress a certain way, it's society. Nobody is complaining that people have to dress in a certain manner to get by - a woman can wear trousers, but a man is likely to be catcalled and beaten if he has the audacity to wear a skirt. And everyone will blame him either, for breaking societal rules. Does that mean that, because he wore a skirt, he deserves to be beaten, because he didn't take the necessary precautions? He put on a little piece of fabric one day, and suddenly he deserves to be beaten and maybe even raped himself (as a lot of rapes against men are as 'punishment' and for 'dominance').

If you think that, because he could avoid it by suppressing himself, that he deserves to be beaten... then you and I will never agree. If you think a woman deserves rape, deserves molestation, deserves lewd comments that make her uncomfortable in her body (to which she is not allowed to protest even in a civil manner), if you think that showing some cleavage and her thighs means that you have a ticket to violate her, then, well, maybe I am screaming and crying. And I will continue throwing this tantrum until people listen.

No matter the crime, the blame is on the perpetrator. There are very, very few exceptions to this in my eyes and these are much more extreme and complicated than, 'she was dressing provocatively, I couldn't control myself because clearly I have no free will and she is a devil-slut'.

You have made two major mistakes in my eyes.
a) Stated that the only people who decry rape culture are female and,
b) Used the words 'screaming and crying' to imply hysteria just because someone doesn't agree with you.

Yes, precautions can be taken. So because a woman doesn't, she deserves what she gets?

EDIT: tl;dr, saying a woman could have prevented it is victim blaming. Saying it isn't doesn't mean it isn't. It is. And even if it weren't, it's insensitive and completely useless. What's she going to do, go back in time and wear a better top? Many rapes aren't sexually motivated, by the way.

I nor anyone else is removing all blame from a rapist, you’re just making this stuff up now. Stop being ridiculous and over emotional and actually think about it. There is nothing wrong with being precautious. My friend, there is a league of difference between dressing up to “look good” and dressing up so that men stare and all women know when they are wearing seductive clothing, you’re making them sound like naïve innocent children which is actually just as bad as anything you accuse me of. I personally would never go around wearing a skirt because, as you said, I’d get increasingly angry comments which would escalate into being beaten.
I think a woman who shows off their thighs and their cleavage don’t deserve to be raped, but they also don’t deserve much respect. Rapists and women who do that need to learn to think about their own actions, you can’t deny the latter is at least partially responsible.

1. They mainly are. You’re male?
2. I use it because these specific people usually get so ridiculously up in arms about it that it is just irritating. I found your post quite annoying because it was so over-dramatic, as I explained above.

No. But she’s learned a valuable lesson.

...learned their lesson...

I'm getting the feeling none of you have actually listened to the programme, and are just spouting the usual responses...

So you can say that someone 'screams and cries' but that's okay because it's you, it's not like you're a dirty feminist who thinks victims should be treated with courtesy and respect to help them to overcome their trauma. Not emotional at all, nope.

I mean, because you don't like women showing their thighs and boobs, it's totally okay for you to talk down to a woman whose entire psyche has been damaged, because, well, you just don't like the ladies who do that, so they're beneath human compassion. Clearly.

I am indeed male, mostly.

And implying that a woman has a right to wear what she likes isn't acting like she has no mind of her own. That's not even partially relevant, stop overreacting, goooddddd.

To be honest, some men will leer after women no matter what they wear, it's just the way they are (and same goes for women behaving in a similar way so not for this to sound one-sided). However I do think women and men should be allowed to wear whatever they like without people overstepping the boundaries. What those boundaries are is quite hard to judge sometimes, but if in doubt, don't is probably your best bet.

I haven't listened to the radio programme however have read about the Slut Walks at uni, so apologies if I'm just repeating what has already been said.

I understand that it can be prevented. I understand society isn't ideal. That doesn't make the concept okay. It's a defeatist attitude - and it is victim blaming. Besides, define 'dressing provocatively'. In inches of cleavage and thigh revealed, please.

Besides I also detest the notion that a woman, for instance, showing off her bum is because she wants male attention (assuming she's not a lesbian). It doesn't. Secondly, many women do - and those women aren't asking to be raped either.

Saying that a woman deserves it is not okay. When someone is demoralised and has to go through one of the most difficult processes related to the law, reminding her at every step that she could've prevented it will really not help.

i agree!

of course when im dressed for a night out..and i get on the tube at 7pm cos i have to get to a friends pre drink party...then YES i am aware that guys will comment, and i dont expect anything less. but in all honesty it DOESNT matter what you wear, one time i was dressed all in black...very professional walking to work..and guys would whistle and stuff..and i mean, i would say i looked sexy that day..no part of my body was showing...i did have make up on, and my hair was a bit styled. but thats it. i think if you're a girl, guys will comment when you walk passed them in an allyway, if you're an attractive girl to them, they will comment no matter what it is you're wearing, and if you're dressed sexy showing flesh, then they will undress you with your eyes publicly.

end of.

Moral high ground achieved! I thought your arguments were reasonable and your tone was respectful, but now you've proven you're no better than any other keyboard warrior who considers anyone they disagree with to be 'immature', so I'm afraid any further argument is going to be inane and draining.

Your mind will not change, nor will mine. Best to leave it at that. You're free to have the last word and consider this a victory.