Why is it fair for people with money to get a better education than me?
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Original post by im so academic
That's why people pay for private schools, otherwise they wouldn't be fulfilling their purpose. It's to give children an extra advantage.
Which is the exact reason it is inherently fair. If my parents could of afforded to pay the extravagant amounts demanded by private schools to guarantee me such an "extra avantage", I'm sure they would of. But the point being, they couldn't do that for me, so I have to make do without this advantage. One does not choose what social class they are born into, but that social class pretty much decides how well or how badly they will do in education, which in turn will determine what career they get which will in turn decide how well their children do educationally. It's an endless cycle.
Original post by zedbrar
Which is the exact reason it is inherently fair. If my parents could of afforded to pay the extravagant amounts demanded by private schools to guarantee me such an "extra avantage", I'm sure they would of. But the point being, they couldn't do that for me, so I have to make do without this advantage. One does not choose what social class they are born into, but that social class pretty much decides how well or how badly they will do in education, which in turn will determine what career they get which will in turn decide how well their children do educationally. It's an endless cycle.
Life isn't fair, nor should we be aiming to make it fair.
It's not necessarily an endless cycle, people can and often do work their way up with hard work and some luck.
Just looked at the Cardiff Private school website.. 4k per year / 83% A*/As.. seems fair on state schools.
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Original post by hypercaine.
I went to a state school, not even a particularly good one but I came out with 12 GCSEs A*-B and 3 A levels A*-B so I can hardly complain, im now studying at a top 3 uni where most people come from private and fee paying schools. Just goes to show that no matter what school you go to and what kind of teachers you have, you can still do well if you want to.
It is easier said than done. I think what you have done is exceptional and commendable but it is not always that easy. A whole host of other factors can also be a great hindrance. Fot example, the home environment can also be a major factor. If you have parents who regard education as important and push for you to do well, you generally will work harder. Peer pressure can also greatly affect a student and also the catchment area of the school is also another great factor.
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
Life isn't fair, nor should we be aiming to make it fair.
It's not necessarily an endless cycle, people can and often do work their way up with hard work and some luck.
It's not necessarily an endless cycle, people can and often do work their way up with hard work and some luck.
That argument is pathetic. You could use that same argument to a person born into slavery. Life isn't fair, they should accept it? I'll agree life isn't fair, but it doesn't mean that we should not try and alter the status quo!
The question is, why not try and make education more fair? Why should I accept the status quo?
People DO work their way out, but not everyone. A large majority of people stay trapped within the cycle.
Naturally, when you pay more for something, you expect to get a higher standard and generally more out of it, the same can be said for private schools, parents are paying through their asses for it, so really, they expect nothing less than the best, can you blame them??
however, i would also like to say that how well students do in their exams, personally for me is 50% the school, teachers, facilities, availability of help and 50% the actual student! no matter what school you're attending, at the end of the day each student writes the exam individually, so its down to how hard you work really and how dedicated and focused you are, ofcourse good teachers and other factors would increase your chance of success and that could explain why private schools produce students with better grades, but a lot of state schools produce very good results from students!
also i'd like to add that some state schools are farr better than private schools in terms on focusing more on academics and having students with top grades. all the people i know who went to public schools are in top uni's whereas, my friends who went to private schools, some are in top unis but not all and not the majority of them
however, i would also like to say that how well students do in their exams, personally for me is 50% the school, teachers, facilities, availability of help and 50% the actual student! no matter what school you're attending, at the end of the day each student writes the exam individually, so its down to how hard you work really and how dedicated and focused you are, ofcourse good teachers and other factors would increase your chance of success and that could explain why private schools produce students with better grades, but a lot of state schools produce very good results from students!
also i'd like to add that some state schools are farr better than private schools in terms on focusing more on academics and having students with top grades. all the people i know who went to public schools are in top uni's whereas, my friends who went to private schools, some are in top unis but not all and not the majority of them
Most wealthy parents are not gonna say ''oh.. we wont send our kids to private schools cos its not fair on those who dont have a choice and can only go to state schools''.
If they can afford to go.. then why shouldnt they?
Btw my brother went to a private school (and we certainly are not wealthy)... didnt get a single A* and didnt get a single A at A-level. I went to a state school that was just shabby and couldn't even afford to put the heating on for an hour each day in winter - and i got many A*s at GCSE.
In my opinion it is indeed, not fair. But its not the standard of private schools that are too high - its the general standard of state schools being too low. State school pupils are still capable of achieving a*-c if they try.
If they can afford to go.. then why shouldnt they?
Btw my brother went to a private school (and we certainly are not wealthy)... didnt get a single A* and didnt get a single A at A-level. I went to a state school that was just shabby and couldn't even afford to put the heating on for an hour each day in winter - and i got many A*s at GCSE.
In my opinion it is indeed, not fair. But its not the standard of private schools that are too high - its the general standard of state schools being too low. State school pupils are still capable of achieving a*-c if they try.
Original post by Stevo112
Better education pffft.
You can get a better education by purchasing a library card and reading some books
You can get a better education by purchasing a library card and reading some books
Some of the most important years of education occur during primary school. Most kids at that age are merely pawn of their parents. If you grow up in a household where you never visit a library and don't have books or have very few books in your household, you are far less likely to get a library card. So you can roll your eyes all you want. But the fact is that children are heavily influenced by their parents.
Original post by zedbrar
It is easier said than done. I think what you have done is exceptional and commendable but it is not always that easy. A whole host of other factors can also be a great hindrance. Fot example, the home environment can also be a major factor. If you have parents who regard education as important and push for you to do well, you generally will work harder. Peer pressure can also greatly affect a student and also the catchment area of the school is also another great factor.
That argument is pathetic. You could use that same argument to a person born into slavery. Life isn't fair, they should accept it? I'll agree life isn't fair, but it doesn't mean that we should not try and alter the status quo!
The question is, why not try and make education more fair? Why should I accept the status quo?
People DO work their way out, but not everyone. A large majority of people stay trapped within the cycle.
That argument is pathetic. You could use that same argument to a person born into slavery. Life isn't fair, they should accept it? I'll agree life isn't fair, but it doesn't mean that we should not try and alter the status quo!
The question is, why not try and make education more fair? Why should I accept the status quo?
People DO work their way out, but not everyone. A large majority of people stay trapped within the cycle.
Slavery requires actively enslaving someone, whereas someone being richer than you is not generally done by making you poorer. A better analogy to slavery here would be someone robbing you.
Secondly, equality is the wrong thing to focus on, improving your condition is a better thing to focus on. What does it matter how well someone else is doing as long as you are doing better than you previously were? If we banned private schools and forced everyone to get the same education, it would be a reduction for the rich, but will it make you better off?
Thirdly, there is a limit to how well we can improve things for you without reducing things for someone else. At the end of the day, improvement requires investment, which comes from taxation, which the private schoolers have to pay. They are already paying their share of tax, on top of private school, why should they be forced to pay more to improve your condition when it won't improve theirs in the short-medium term? Not fair to them is it?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by zedbrar
Some of the most important years of education occur during primary school. Most kids at that age are merely pawn of their parents. If you grow up in a household where you never visit a library and don't have books or have very few books in your household, you are far less likely to get a library card. So you can roll your eyes all you want. But the fact is that children are heavily influenced by their parents.
Why have you brought up KS1/KS2 education?
Also, I was merely saying that you could get a better education if you picked up some books and read. I believe this is true. Working in a state school myself I do often have times when I am really stretched with regards to helping kids learn. It is reasonable to say that if a child picked up a book they loved and read through it then they would get a better education! I was simply saying that. I wasn't touching on family issues. This is why our school has a reading day every week, where we read through a book. To try and engage a child in reading independantly.
The video clip (despite being fictional) was meant to highlight that one could spend $150k on an education and still be lacking in skills which a humbler bloke with no formal education and a $1.50 library fine can have in abundance. At least that is how I like to see myself anyways
Of course people in Private school get better grades than public school, what would be the point in going otherwise.
People pay obscene amounts of money so their child will be in a smaller class, have better teachers, better facilities etc, what is wrong with that? With the right amount of hardwork anyone can achieve at GCSE. A-Level is a bit different, but I'd maintain that with hard work you can still achieve at a State school. The difference is at a Private school every grade matters, and there are fewer people, so they make their students work hard.
Original post by Stevo112
Also, I was merely saying that you could get a better education if you picked up some books and read. I believe this is true. It is reasonable to say that if a child picked up a book they loved and read through it then they would get a better education!
Definitely agree with this, tell the kids to read and they will learn and do better. Note I didn't say "teach" them to read - it is TELL them to read.
If they don't do it, it is their own loss and detrimental to their grades, nobody to blame but themselves. Can't say their teacher didn't help, if they didn't bother their own *** to try and make an effort to read.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by zedbrar
It is easier said than done. I think what you have done is exceptional and commendable but it is not always that easy. A whole host of other factors can also be a great hindrance. Fot example, the home environment can also be a major factor. If you have parents who regard education as important and push for you to do well, you generally will work harder. Peer pressure can also greatly affect a student and also the catchment area of the school is also another great factor.
That argument is pathetic. You could use that same argument to a person born into slavery. Life isn't fair, they should accept it? I'll agree life isn't fair, but it doesn't mean that we should not try and alter the status quo!
The question is, why not try and make education more fair? Why should I accept the status quo?
People DO work their way out, but not everyone. A large majority of people stay trapped within the cycle.
That argument is pathetic. You could use that same argument to a person born into slavery. Life isn't fair, they should accept it? I'll agree life isn't fair, but it doesn't mean that we should not try and alter the status quo!
The question is, why not try and make education more fair? Why should I accept the status quo?
People DO work their way out, but not everyone. A large majority of people stay trapped within the cycle.
The real question is, who are you to decide how someone can spend their money?
Private schools take pressure off the State system for one thing. By removing them you don't help anyone, you bring people down to the same level. With proper application of effort anyone in a State School can achieve what they could in a Private school. The fact is a Private school makes you work hard, and in a state school it's a choice. And besides, if you do away with Privte schools you'll just see a Boom in high level tutoring. You have no right to tell parents they can't do the best for their children.
Original post by Stevo112
Why have you brought up KS1/KS2 education?
Also, I was merely saying that you could get a better education if you picked up some books and read. I believe this is true. Working in a state school myself I do often have times when I am really stretched with regards to helping kids learn. It is reasonable to say that if a child picked up a book they loved and read through it then they would get a better education! I was simply saying that. I wasn't touching on family issues. This is why our school has a reading day every week, where we read through a book. To try and engage a child in reading independantly.
The video clip (despite being fictional) was meant to highlight that one could spend $150k on an education and still be lacking in skills which a humbler bloke with no formal education and a $1.50 library fine can have in abundance. At least that is how I like to see myself anyways
Also, I was merely saying that you could get a better education if you picked up some books and read. I believe this is true. Working in a state school myself I do often have times when I am really stretched with regards to helping kids learn. It is reasonable to say that if a child picked up a book they loved and read through it then they would get a better education! I was simply saying that. I wasn't touching on family issues. This is why our school has a reading day every week, where we read through a book. To try and engage a child in reading independantly.
The video clip (despite being fictional) was meant to highlight that one could spend $150k on an education and still be lacking in skills which a humbler bloke with no formal education and a $1.50 library fine can have in abundance. At least that is how I like to see myself anyways
Lol you see yourself as Will Hunting?
Good luck with that.
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
Slavery requires actively enslaving someone, whereas someone being richer than you is not generally done by making you poorer. A better analogy to slavery here would be someone robbing you.
You can be born into slavery though. In which case, you restricted by the circumstances you are born into. Likewise, being born into a low class family means your family are most likely not going to be able to afford to pay for a private education and you are going to be restricted by the circumstances you are born into.
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
Secondly, equality is the wrong thing to focus on, improving your condition is a better thing to focus on. What does it matter how well someone else is doing as long as you are doing better than you previously were? If we banned private schools and forced everyone to get the same education, it would be a reduction for the rich, but will it make you better off?
The Finnish education has rid themselves of the victorian institution of private education and they have surpassed almost every country in the world educationally. So if we were to take Finland as an example, everyone, rich and poor benefitted.
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
Thirdly, there is a limit to how well we can improve things for you without reducing things for someone else. At the end of the day, improvement requires investment, which comes from taxation, which the private schoolers have to pay. They are already paying their share of tax, on top of private school, why should they be forced to pay more to improve your condition when it won't improve theirs in the short-medium term? Not fair to them is it?
They have a social responsibility. Same arguments are used against the NHS. Why should people pay for less well off people's health care? In the medium to long term, our society will benefit greatly. Surely if these parents really care about their childrens future, they would realise that the society their children will live in is just as important, if not more important, than paying for educational advantages via private schools.
The main problem isn't that there are private schools. It's that those that go to private school have been raised in that environment to achieve as much as possible and learn new things in order to go to university; get a fulfilling job.
Then those that go to state schools largely have not been brought up in such an environment. I go to a state school, quite a poor one too (we have a huge banner celebrating that we got called a 'Good' school by OFSTED) and the whole learning experience is completely different. Not so much now I am doing my A Levels as those that were disruptive have left (although now of course kids will have to stay on until 18) but in the main school before even though I was in all of the top sets never had I been in a class that wasn't interrupted by a misbehaving student at least twice.
And these misbehaving students? They have been raised to not care about that, either due to peer pressure from other kids due to the whole "failure is cool" thing or their home life has been very damaging.
The whole "anyone can do anything and achieve anything" is a pile of ****. I've seen people grow up being told they were failures by their parents, so lash out and get bad grades. They're not paid much attention to by teachers and carry on being bad and getting nothing because by this time they're in with that sort of crowd and there's barely any hope.
Private schools being banned would not stop how some people live at home. But it may improve state education so the general consensus is not "fail and you're cool" but "work hard and get somewhere" just as it is in private schools.
Then those that go to state schools largely have not been brought up in such an environment. I go to a state school, quite a poor one too (we have a huge banner celebrating that we got called a 'Good' school by OFSTED) and the whole learning experience is completely different. Not so much now I am doing my A Levels as those that were disruptive have left (although now of course kids will have to stay on until 18) but in the main school before even though I was in all of the top sets never had I been in a class that wasn't interrupted by a misbehaving student at least twice.
And these misbehaving students? They have been raised to not care about that, either due to peer pressure from other kids due to the whole "failure is cool" thing or their home life has been very damaging.
The whole "anyone can do anything and achieve anything" is a pile of ****. I've seen people grow up being told they were failures by their parents, so lash out and get bad grades. They're not paid much attention to by teachers and carry on being bad and getting nothing because by this time they're in with that sort of crowd and there's barely any hope.
Private schools being banned would not stop how some people live at home. But it may improve state education so the general consensus is not "fail and you're cool" but "work hard and get somewhere" just as it is in private schools.
Original post by MrHappy_J
Lol you see yourself as Will Hunting?
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
Canterbury, ahhhh! I'll be teaching there next year!
I'm sure that the distinction was made with regards to our passion for reading about a wide range of subjects
I also share the belief that you can pick up a decent education from the library for free as apposed to forking out a wedge to study in private schools.... mainly because that is how i've learnt Original post by Stevo112
Canterbury, ahhhh! I'll be teaching there next year!
I'm sure that the distinction was made with regards to our passion for reading about a wide range of subjects I also share the belief that you can pick up a decent education from the library for free as apposed to forking out a wedge to study in private schools.... mainly because that is how i've learnt
I'm sure that the distinction was made with regards to our passion for reading about a wide range of subjects
I also share the belief that you can pick up a decent education from the library for free as apposed to forking out a wedge to study in private schools.... mainly because that is how i've learnt Well...congratulations
Why bother going to school then if you can just go to the local library?
Original post by MrHappy_J
Well...congratulations
Why bother going to school then if you can just go to the local library?
Why bother going to school then if you can just go to the local library?
because school is cool
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