'Society should not accept obesity'

The why stop there, if we shouldn't spend taxes on the overweight because it's self inflicted, then we shouldn't spend money on people injured playing recreactional sports, people injured in road accidents that was their own fault, people bitten by their own pets. People shouldn't be rescued when they decide to go hill walking/rock climbing and get trapped in a storm, people shouldn't be rescued if they go sailing and get trapped out at sea. Infact why not just re-shape the whole public service system i.e. taxes should only be used for situations where the service user did not inflict the situation upon themself. So next people decide to go play a game of football, or by a pair or roller blades, or indeed have a bbq where they could potentially harm themself, they should not expect taxes to pay for any helpless situation they get theirself into because it's self inflicted and could have been prevented by just not doing it.


.......................or, we can keep the tax system they way it is, where taxes allow everyone in the country to at the very least the most basic of health care, personal protection, education, allowing people to live their life mostly in the way they see fit.

There are other factors but does any combination of external variables and internal motivations/willpower make it so unreasonably difficult for the vast majority of people? Most obese do not face the genetic short straw for example. If some given obese person is maintaining weight then chances are, it really is just a case of taking 500cals of fries or whatever out per day. Eating properly and healthily requires lifestyle change but you don't have to throw it all on yourself at once to lose weight; you can make proper changes as you go along. If that person had the willpower/motivations then they would research and find that out.

Yes losing (or gaining) weight requires more willpower than maintaining but I'm not sure what point you were trying to make there.

We know that many people don't have the willpower. If people had the willpower we wouldn't have so many obese.

I'll give you the parent thing, there's no clear solution for that. But the process of losing weight is the same at least.

BTW when I say willpower, I mean the encompassing of all internal drive. So long term motivation and short term grit.

The why stop there, if we shouldn't spend taxes on the overweight because it's self inflicted, then we shouldn't spend money on people injured playing recreactional sports, people injured in road accidents that was their own fault, people bitten by their own pets. People shouldn't be rescued when they decide to go hill walking/rock climbing and get trapped in a storm, people shouldn't be rescued if they go sailing and get trapped out at sea. Infact why not just re-shape the whole public service system i.e. taxes should only be used for situations where the service user did not inflict the situation upon themself. So next people decide to go play a game of football, or by a pair or roller blades, or indeed have a bbq where they could potentially harm themself, they should not expect taxes to pay for any helpless situation they get theirself into because it's self inflicted and could have been prevented by just not doing it.


.......................or, we can keep the tax system they way it is, where taxes allow everyone in the country to at the very least the most basic of health care, personal protection, education, allowing people to live their life mostly in the way they see fit.

Why should I, a fit and healthy individual who hasn't cost the NHS a penny in six years (the last time I visited a doctor), have to pay for a fat pig's heart bypass or diabetes medicine? You bang on about freedom but these freedoms are being paid for by other people.

Why should I, a fit and healthy individual who hasn't cost the NHS a penny in six years (the last time I visited a doctor), have to pay for a fat pig's heart bypass or diabetes medicine? You bang on about freedom but these freedoms are being paid for by other people.

It was geared towards the common response of 'if the other 4/10 people aren't overweight or obese, then the other 6 should be able to just lose the weight' that often comes in response from arguing that weight loss is very hard.

Ah I see yes, then perhaps if that is what you are saying willpower is, then obesity is about not having the willpower. But you can't expect someone to suck it up and get the willpower, that's impossible. They have to have their own reasons for losing the weight, and it seems that health isn't a good enough reason for a lot of people, nor is looking good, better fitness etc. I just don't see how placing blame or thinking of the obese population as all lazy and stupid and ignorant (I'm not saying you are, but this seems to be the common attitude) is at all helpful, or true. Obesity shouldn't be accepted as something to be, or remain at, but it should be accepted that the obese need help, be it psychological or professional and factual dietary information. Society should not accept obesity, by taking active steps to reduce it, educate children and adults, prevent it in younger generations. Not by placing blame on or humiliating obese individuals.

And also, yeah it seems to simple when you put it on paper. A chocolate bar here, or a portion of chips there, but when this behaviour is so ingrained in you every day life, you don't think, you just order your food then feel guilty later. I could only lose weight when I completely revamped and pretty much made a meal plan for myself. And also, it might be enough for a month or so's steady weight loss, but after that, hormone balances change making you less full and more hungry, and some research suggests that you metabolism shifts slightly to slow weight loss, so really, the small efforts won't get you too far.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

It's not a devolving issue I am a relatively fit person, I'm not overweight - therefore I will (on average) not use the NHS to the same degree as someone who is obese. Is it right that I am asked to foot the bill for their lifestyle choices? People who go rock climbing do not do so with the intention of falling off and breaking their leg; people who eat a large amount of the wrong foods know what the end result will be. The expenditure should be relocated to make sure that people do not get into that state in the first place.

Guess you're not too familiar with Libertarianism, are you?

I think we are mostly in agreement now.

If your body adjusts to keep weight at the same amount of food then thats when you start introducing bigger lifestyle changes like lifting weights to raise metabolism. My point there was only that it doesn't need to all be done at once. Work hard and smart - just doing one gets you nowhere. Too many lack the willpower to work hard; someone else can make them work smart like a GP or even an article on the internet or something.

I probably will. I'm tired of having to pay for other people's decisions. How you can find a system that encourages people to take no responsibility for their actions as moral is beyond me. Although you yourself have admitted that you are irresponsible with your own weight, so you have a lot to gain from such a system whereas I don't. Figures you'd try to protect it.

Rubbish, people who overeat don't do so with the intention of having a heart attack just as much as people who go rock climbing don't do so with the intention of getting hurt, however, both have dangerous outcomes, and in both scenarios the person in question is most probably aware of the dangers. Thus there isn't any difference between illness due to overeating and illness due to recreational activity. The only difference is the prejudices held by society in relation of each scenario i.e. overeating is looked down upon whereas recreational activity isn't despite the fact that both could potentially have negative outcomes.

Infact I would even go as far to say the amount of people that get injured in recreational sports, just messing around or indeed any scenario where someone admitted to hospital for an act they chose to do is probably higher than the amount of people admitted for over consumption of food over a given period. Yet overeating is shunned but playing a dangerous game of rubgy or cycling on the road isn't. They are all dangerous activities that could easily be prevented by not doing it.........

If it becomes too much of a strain on society then put a small tax levy on unhealthy foods, but equally if we are going to tax the easily preventable, you could easily argue recreational activities could be taxed given the potential danger. One thing I certainly don't agree with though is making soceity shame people for living their, limited, free life in the way they see fit.

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

I agree that willpower is needed, but my point is that losing weight is hard

It's much easier than gaining muscle I can assure you.

The OP completely missed the points being made in the previous thread - in fact, I'm fairly certain he did not read it.

It might well be, I've never tried to gain muscle before. Your point is?

That it is easy. People like to convince themselves it's difficult.

If you think losing weight is difficult and the hardest thing you've ever done then you've had an unbelievably easy life. That sounds patronising but it's a simple deduction. If doing exercise and eating in a way to promote a healthy body is difficult to you, then you have not been seriously challenged previously.

That it is easy. People like to convince themselves it's difficult.

If you think losing weight is difficult and the hardest thing you've ever done then you've had an unbelievably easy life. That sounds patronising but it's a simple deduction. If doing exercise and eating in a way to promote a healthy body is difficult to you, then you have not been seriously challenged previously.

You'd be incorrect in your deduction, but I'm not going to disclose my life history for the sake of an argument. It took the most of my time and energy. I had to always know what I was going to eat, plan my day around exercise and cook for my whole family every night because that was the only way that I could eat healthily. My school work and social life suffered, perhaps because I got too obsessed with it, but that was the only way I could be successful. I had to choose losing weight over everything else in my life, and now I have to choose maintaining this weight. Sometimes I wish I'd stayed bigger because I've lost so much through losing the weight. You haven't been in my situation, so I don't expect you to understand fully, but please try to understand that not everything is as simple as numbers