Rape
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Original post by Algorithm69
For many women it does have no effect on them. We all know, or at least should know, the inflated statistics used by feminists who classify women as rape victims even when the women themselves don't believe they had been raped. In fact the recent debate on rape at LSE highlighted the fact that feminist rhetoric is the thing causing the trauma to many women, demanding that they be traumatised because "rape" is always traumatising, right?
And no, before you vilify me, I never suggested rape cannot be traumatising. I'm saying not every instance is.
And no, before you vilify me, I never suggested rape cannot be traumatising. I'm saying not every instance is.
I'm not sure which online articles you have been reading by so called feminists, but at the end of the day if you are made to have sex against your will, whether it is physically or via intimidation tactics it is rape. I don't know whether you think the definition of rape has changed.
I think you're assuming that I'm saying every female who gets raped suffers from some type of mental breakdown and ends up being sectioned, when I know that is not true. But it is ridiculous to say that being raped has no effect on some women. I assure you, being raped affects every woman, just in different ways. To say that if doesn't affect 'many' women is just ridiculous. Your attitude towards rape is very worrying.
Original post by Algorithm69
And actually, the definition of rape is not "to be made to have sex against your will". Nice try though.
And actually, the definition of rape is not "to be made to have sex against your will". Nice try though.
the crime, typically committed by a man, of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/rape
Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
I'm guessing it's hard for us guys to get, and the closest we can get to understanding it might be to imagine if someone was to anally penetrate us against our wishes. Aside from the force used and the pain it would cause, imagine being in that helpless situation and realising how utterly powerless you would feel?
It would make you feel like your body didn't truly belong to you. It would no longer be your personal sanctuary. It would potentially destroy numerous aspects of your life as you felt that you had been reduced to the level of an animal, and all modern society was unable to prevent it.
It would make you feel like your body didn't truly belong to you. It would no longer be your personal sanctuary. It would potentially destroy numerous aspects of your life as you felt that you had been reduced to the level of an animal, and all modern society was unable to prevent it.
Females can rape males you know? So It is ridiculous to assume it would be "hard for us guys to get".
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Algorithm69
That is not a legal definition. Try again. Actually I'll post it for you:
1-(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
(2) Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.
(3) Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.
(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.
Rape requires penetration, with a penis, completely exonerating all women of rape if they have sexual intercourse with a man against his will. Funny how that works, eh?
So no, "forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will" is not the definition of rape. You're a fan of meaningless dictionary definitions aren't you?
1-(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
(2) Whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents.
(3) Sections 75 and 76 apply to an offence under this section.
(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for life.
Rape requires penetration, with a penis, completely exonerating all women of rape if they have sexual intercourse with a man against his will. Funny how that works, eh?
So no, "forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will" is not the definition of rape. You're a fan of meaningless dictionary definitions aren't you?
Forcing a person to have penetrative sexual intercourse against their will, for the pedant among us.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Forcing a person to have penetrative sexual intercourse against their will, for the pedant among us.
No I think it is fair to say you did not realise what you were getting into when you debated with someone as formidable as Algrorithm69. He pretty much destroyed your argument while highlighting how the current UK law is sexist against males.
(edited 10 years ago)
surely you don't expect to get raped....
Original post by slade p
no but i can tell your a total fool by your statement.
Your statement was ridiculous and you cannot seem to understand simple grammatical constructions.
Original post by Rational Thinker
No I think it is fair to say you did not realise what you were getting into when you debated with someone as formiddable as Algrorithm. He pretty much destroyed your argument while highlighting how the current UK law is sexist against males.
Er, no, he hasn't. I haven't even got into a debate with him, all I did was provide a definition. His debate is with someone else. Also, I'm well aware that men cannot be raped by women legally, check my post history and you'll see I talk about it a few times. No one has said that law isn't sexist.
Original post by Rational Thinker
Females can rape males you know? So It is ridiculous to assume it would be "hard for us guys to get".
Well, actually, legally speaking, they can't
But I maintain that it would be hard for us to get. Whilst the overwhelming majority of men will have heterosexual sex, the amount of men who are homosexual and would be interested in raping another man is much lower. Culturally, this creates a climate where a woman will constantly feel much more vulnerable. You have to factor in that women are encouraged to enshrine and protect their virginity and even biologically they are inclined to withhold sex for much longer than a man would wait. This results in women constantly having it as a concern whereas for men it is far less so.
TLDR: It's a society smashing ordeal, and one that women are far more likely to experience than a man, so they are told to constantly worry about it, whereas men are not.
On a side note, a strange effect of this is that almost every girl you'll ever meet will have a 'rape' story, ranging from the terrible to the trivial.
Original post by Algorithm69
It isn't pedantry to highlight you completely neglected to mention a very important aspect of the definition of rape.
I think most people were aware we were talking about penetrative sex though as it's common knowledge that other forms of sexual activity aren't regarded as rape (but are regarded as sexual assault).
My personal view is that they should be, and women should be able to be convicted of rape if they force a man to have sex against his will
Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
Well, actually, legally speaking, they can't
But I maintain that it would be hard for us to get. Whilst the overwhelming majority of men will have heterosexual sex, the amount of men who are homosexual and would be interested in raping another man is much lower. Culturally, this creates a climate where a woman will constantly feel much more vulnerable. You have to factor in that women are encouraged to enshrine and protect their virginity and even biologically they are inclined to withhold sex for much longer than a man would wait. This results in women constantly having it as a concern whereas for men it is far less so.
TLDR: It's a society smashing ordeal, and one that women are far more likely to experience than a man, so they are told to constantly worry about it, whereas men are not.
On a side note, a strange effect of this is that almost every girl you'll ever meet will have a 'rape' story, ranging from the terrible to the trivial.
But I maintain that it would be hard for us to get. Whilst the overwhelming majority of men will have heterosexual sex, the amount of men who are homosexual and would be interested in raping another man is much lower. Culturally, this creates a climate where a woman will constantly feel much more vulnerable. You have to factor in that women are encouraged to enshrine and protect their virginity and even biologically they are inclined to withhold sex for much longer than a man would wait. This results in women constantly having it as a concern whereas for men it is far less so.
TLDR: It's a society smashing ordeal, and one that women are far more likely to experience than a man, so they are told to constantly worry about it, whereas men are not.
On a side note, a strange effect of this is that almost every girl you'll ever meet will have a 'rape' story, ranging from the terrible to the trivial.
It is a law that needs changing. Women can rape men and this should be enshrined in law. The fact that this is not recognised means that males are expected to always "want" sexual intercourse. As for the 'rape' stories the most farcical I have heard is one about a male asking a female Rebbeca Watson (something of a "celebrity" in the feminist atheist community) I believe whether "she wanted to go get some coffee" and in the mind of the female this was tantamount to rape. Richard Dawkins being the excellent wit he is mocked the inane accusation of rape as detracting from important issues. Though I do not always agree with Dawkins I wholeheartedly approved of his rebuttal on this occassion.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
Well, actually, legally speaking, they can't
But I maintain that it would be hard for us to get. Whilst the overwhelming majority of men will have heterosexual sex, the amount of men who are homosexual and would be interested in raping another man is much lower. Culturally, this creates a climate where a woman will constantly feel much more vulnerable. You have to factor in that women are encouraged to enshrine and protect their virginity and even biologically they are inclined to withhold sex for much longer than a man would wait. This results in women constantly having it as a concern whereas for men it is far less so.
TLDR: It's a society smashing ordeal, and one that women are far more likely to experience than a man, so they are told to constantly worry about it, whereas men are not.
On a side note, a strange effect of this is that almost every girl you'll ever meet will have a 'rape' story, ranging from the terrible to the trivial.
But I maintain that it would be hard for us to get. Whilst the overwhelming majority of men will have heterosexual sex, the amount of men who are homosexual and would be interested in raping another man is much lower. Culturally, this creates a climate where a woman will constantly feel much more vulnerable. You have to factor in that women are encouraged to enshrine and protect their virginity and even biologically they are inclined to withhold sex for much longer than a man would wait. This results in women constantly having it as a concern whereas for men it is far less so.
TLDR: It's a society smashing ordeal, and one that women are far more likely to experience than a man, so they are told to constantly worry about it, whereas men are not.
On a side note, a strange effect of this is that almost every girl you'll ever meet will have a 'rape' story, ranging from the terrible to the trivial.
I'm curious, what do you mean by this? Any evidence? Not trying to spark a debate, I want to read it
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
I'm curious, what do you mean by this? Any evidence? Not trying to spark a debate, I want to read it
Are you asian?
Original post by locrian37
Are you asian?
No, why?
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
I'm curious, what do you mean by this? Any evidence? Not trying to spark a debate, I want to read it
Sure thing, I'll find the source for it now. It's a real thing, not just something I said, found in studies to do with male/female attraction. A man makes a decision about attraction and whether to commit far quicker than a woman, as obviously she has to think of the long term repercussions of having a 9month pregnancy that a male doesn't have to think about. Whilst that may no longer be relevant with modern anti-pregnancy stuffs, it's still physically ingrained.
Original post by Rational Thinker
It is a law that needs changing. Women can rape men and this should be enshrined in law. The fact that this is not recognised means that males are expected to always "want" sexual intercourse. As for the 'rape' stories the most farcical I have heard is one about a male asking a female Rebbeca Watson (something of a "celebrity" in the feminist atheist communist) I believe whether "she wanted to go get some coffee" and in the mind of the female this was tantamount to rape. Richard Dawkins being the excellent wit he is mocked the inane accusation of rape as detracting from important issues. Though I do not always agree with Dawkins I wholeheartedly approved of his rebuttal on this occassion.
100% Agree with you and will give rep when I can. Whilst it's there it entails the rape culture that we all know we live in, where men are encouraged from a young age to identify as rapists and women are encouraged to see men in that light. There is real rape abound and the current culture both belittles it and passively encourages it by proxy.
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
No, why?
You looked a little south asian, not enough half and half? or perhaps middle east/persian?
Original post by Algorithm69
Actually you'll find the public, and most people on TSR for that matter, aren't aware that penetration by a penis is required for rape, and that women cannot rape. You'll find most people define rape how you did, as "sexual intercourse against your will", which is gender neutral. But the legal definition of rape is anything but. A very important distinction which should not be ignored.
Fair enough, I was looking at it under the impression everyone commenting knew about that, but you are right that not everyone does. I would have expected most on TSR to know it though
Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
Sure thing, I'll find the source for it now. It's a real thing, not just something I said, found in studies to do with male/female attraction. A man makes a decision about attraction and whether to commit far quicker than a woman, as obviously she has to think of the long term repercussions of having a 9month pregnancy that a male doesn't have to think about. Whilst that may no longer be relevant with modern anti-pregnancy stuffs, it's still physically ingrained.
Interesting. Does it say anything about women who aren't bothered? Such as women into casual sex? I'm curious as to what this says about them
Original post by locrian37
You looked a little south asian, not enough half and half? or perhaps middle east/persian?
I'm pure white, but I get that a lot. Usually people assume I'm half and half. But no, I'm white.
I think you're being a little ignorant. There's plenty of Academic research out there to indicate the severity of the trauma suffered by a rape victim. There's other negative effects too, such as social stigma.
This study evaluated the psychopathological consequences of a single rape occurring in adult women. The psychiatric symptoms reported by 40 women who were victims of rape during the previous 9 months as decided by a court of law were compared with the symptoms of 32 women who underwent severe, nonsexual, life-threatening events (car accidents, physical attacks, or robberies). None of the raped women had experienced previous sexual abuse during childhood or adolescence. The raped women showed a significantly greater prevalence of posttraumatic stress disorder, as well as sexual, eating, and mood disorders. These findings indicate that the psychopathological consequences of a rape could be specific and may warrant particular attention.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15285977
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15285977
(edited 10 years ago)
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