What do you think about FEMINISM?
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Original post by Spetznaaz
2. So women are oppressed in this country, even though you admit legally men and women are equals (and women favored in some laws)... Ooookay.
Rape is harshly punished, Fact.
Most individuals believe rape is wrong, fact.
You feminists think that say someone makes a rape joke, and we all laugh, it means we all think rape is okay. Complete and utter *******s.
Original post by ravishingrick69
feminists have something fundamentally wrong with their brains, the part responsible for giving evidence to support their claims
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Sherry1993
I really agree with this! Couldn't have put it better. ^^^^
There is no need for feminism now, woman have all the same rights and equality as men do. So I can't see where the issue is any more, Although I think society is still male dominated. But this does not mean woman dont have any less rights than men.
Feminism is just a complete farce.
There is no need for feminism now, woman have all the same rights and equality as men do. So I can't see where the issue is any more, Although I think society is still male dominated. But this does not mean woman dont have any less rights than men.
Feminism is just a complete farce.
marry me
Original post by DanieleRosato
It's quite funny because we're reading 'Cupcakes and Kalashnikovs (a collection of Feminist Journalism) in our English Lang Lit class at A2, and there's about 10 guys, and 4 girls in our class. 1 guy is extremely sexist, and 1 girl is incredibly uptight and they argue all lesson.
I've got nothing wrong with Feminism, as, in the past, women were completely discriminated against and had no rights. I get that.
However, I do find it ridiculous when I see Radical-Feminists campaigning for the removal of 'Lads Mags' because it 'objectifies' women. I've seen magazines such as Take a Break etc. featuring topless men, in incredibly sexual poses. This is why I tend to ignore Feminists, as the name implies, it seems to be all about women. I mean if a company were to bring out a Nuts style magazine with Men inside instead of Women, I wouldn't complain. It just seems a bit sad really.
I've got nothing wrong with Feminism, as, in the past, women were completely discriminated against and had no rights. I get that.
However, I do find it ridiculous when I see Radical-Feminists campaigning for the removal of 'Lads Mags' because it 'objectifies' women. I've seen magazines such as Take a Break etc. featuring topless men, in incredibly sexual poses. This is why I tend to ignore Feminists, as the name implies, it seems to be all about women. I mean if a company were to bring out a Nuts style magazine with Men inside instead of Women, I wouldn't complain. It just seems a bit sad really.
To add to your point - The woman doing the photo shoots, for the 'Lads Mags' fully consent to this, so I dont understand all the rad fems, and where their problem is?! To me that is giving a woman her equal rights, her freedom to choose her career, but the Rad Fem says she cant do that?
They simply contradict themselves with this one!!!
Honestly Modern Fems are a joke.
The dont stand for anything.
Feminism does have good intention. It just happens to be poisoned by some very stupid people
Original post by ravishingrick69
marry me
haha
I am assuming, you have not come across many females with an 'Anti-fem' opinion!?
Something that really riles me is when, women in particular, state that they hate the word feminism. Feminism, apparently to some, conjures up the image of some man-hating, combat-boot wearing, angry and bitter old single woman. This is not the reality. Feminists are not out to get one up on men. Feminists are not trying to become the better sex. Feminism, by its very nature, stands for the equality of gender.
Feminists come in all shapes and sizes. All likes and dislikes. All ages, genders, backgrounds, races. Yes, a man can (and should) consider themselves as feminists. Feminism, simply put, is the radical notion that women should be considered people. It is not a strictly-female issue, it is a human issue, and a global one at that.
One issue that has often been raised to me is that how feminism can be considered a human issue when the the word begins itself with a gender-specific prefix. In all honesty, I can’t help but to laugh when people point this out as if they’re making some sort of valuable contribution or revelation. A lot of words begin or end with gender-specific prefixes and suffixes. If we were to spend more time picking holes in every single word than becoming active over what is behind the word, are we not shooting ourselves in the foot?
The word “feminism” has been around since the end of the 1800s, though the principle behind the term – the struggle for equality – has been around since the beginning of the Western world. The use of the word feminism did not become popular until the 1960s-70s. Before this, women’s liberationist or suffragette was the preferred term, but this started to get a bad name and so was replaced with feminism. Now, to some, this word has negative connotations and some people actively dissociate themselves from it. However, what this shows is that the term used is completely irrelevant nowadays; it seems that it is what is behind the word – equality – that is more frightening to people.
It also seems that some people are so scared to stand by their convictions, morals and principles that the use of the word “but” is becoming more and more popular, particularly in relation to feminism.
“I’m not a feminist but I think everyone, regardless of gender, should have the same rights.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I believe in equality of gender.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I believe both men and women should have equal career opportunities and wages for doing the same work.” Wrong.
I used to think exactly this, and to some extent still do. However, I am behind the page 3 protest purely because The Sun is a widely accessible national newspaper and anyone can buy it. It's left on the kitchen counter, on the coffee table, in cafes, etc. The message that gets sent out to children is that it's okay to see a woman as an object, worth nothing more than the size of her tits or how she looks. That the sole reason of her use is to please those who look at her. I have no problem that she fully consented to it and wanted to be a page 3 model - it's just not appropriate to have such a thing so accessible to easily influenced minds. Whether we like it or not, it's something that is sending out a negative message of sexism and objectification to the younger audience and can be easily avoided.
Yes, you could argue that it's just a pair of boobs, but thanks to our society, it's something that is sexualised. (And yet, we look on grossed out when a woman is using her breasts for their one function - feeding their young).
That's what I take from it anyway.
Feminists come in all shapes and sizes. All likes and dislikes. All ages, genders, backgrounds, races. Yes, a man can (and should) consider themselves as feminists. Feminism, simply put, is the radical notion that women should be considered people. It is not a strictly-female issue, it is a human issue, and a global one at that.
One issue that has often been raised to me is that how feminism can be considered a human issue when the the word begins itself with a gender-specific prefix. In all honesty, I can’t help but to laugh when people point this out as if they’re making some sort of valuable contribution or revelation. A lot of words begin or end with gender-specific prefixes and suffixes. If we were to spend more time picking holes in every single word than becoming active over what is behind the word, are we not shooting ourselves in the foot?
The word “feminism” has been around since the end of the 1800s, though the principle behind the term – the struggle for equality – has been around since the beginning of the Western world. The use of the word feminism did not become popular until the 1960s-70s. Before this, women’s liberationist or suffragette was the preferred term, but this started to get a bad name and so was replaced with feminism. Now, to some, this word has negative connotations and some people actively dissociate themselves from it. However, what this shows is that the term used is completely irrelevant nowadays; it seems that it is what is behind the word – equality – that is more frightening to people.
It also seems that some people are so scared to stand by their convictions, morals and principles that the use of the word “but” is becoming more and more popular, particularly in relation to feminism.
“I’m not a feminist but I think everyone, regardless of gender, should have the same rights.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I believe in equality of gender.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I believe both men and women should have equal career opportunities and wages for doing the same work.” Wrong.
Original post by Sherry1993
To add to your point - The woman doing the photo shoots, for the 'Lads Mags' fully consent to this, so I dont understand all the rad fems, and where their problem is?! To me that is giving a woman her equal rights, her freedom to choose her career, but the Rad Fem says she cant do that?
They simply contradict themselves with this one!!!
Honestly Modern Fems are a joke.
The dont stand for anything.
They simply contradict themselves with this one!!!
Honestly Modern Fems are a joke.
The dont stand for anything.
I used to think exactly this, and to some extent still do. However, I am behind the page 3 protest purely because The Sun is a widely accessible national newspaper and anyone can buy it. It's left on the kitchen counter, on the coffee table, in cafes, etc. The message that gets sent out to children is that it's okay to see a woman as an object, worth nothing more than the size of her tits or how she looks. That the sole reason of her use is to please those who look at her. I have no problem that she fully consented to it and wanted to be a page 3 model - it's just not appropriate to have such a thing so accessible to easily influenced minds. Whether we like it or not, it's something that is sending out a negative message of sexism and objectification to the younger audience and can be easily avoided.
Yes, you could argue that it's just a pair of boobs, but thanks to our society, it's something that is sexualised. (And yet, we look on grossed out when a woman is using her breasts for their one function - feeding their young).
That's what I take from it anyway.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by puma21
Feminism is a joke these days women have equal rights. Feminists are trying to force equal outcomes where it suits them by quota's for women in the top positions such as politicians and board members, how about more female garbage collectors and sewage workers. They only want the nice parts of equality. They also say they fight for mens rights too but frankly that's just lip service. Don't get me started on the blatant lies and misuse of stats like the wage gap
Agreed.
Original post by ironandwine
It also seems that some people are so scared to stand by their convictions, morals and principles that the use of the word “but” is becoming more and more popular, particularly in relation to feminism.
“I’m not a feminist but I think everyone, regardless of gender, should have the same rights.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I believe in equality of gender.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I believe both men and women should have equal career opportunities and wages for doing the same work.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I think everyone, regardless of gender, should have the same rights.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I believe in equality of gender.” Wrong.
“I’m not a feminist but I believe both men and women should have equal career opportunities and wages for doing the same work.” Wrong.
It could also be the fact that people see believing in equal rights, gender equality and all that stuff, as just being a decent human being. Isn't that something to strive towards?
Original post by Liquid Swordsman
Do you think white people have an advantage?
Very rarely
Well there are misconceptions about rape and what consent is (e.g. when someone is too drunk to consent).
No...
You have not given evidence for a single one of your claims. Any evidence that I'm a woman, for example?
Very rarely
Well there are misconceptions about rape and what consent is (e.g. when someone is too drunk to consent).
No...
You have not given evidence for a single one of your claims. Any evidence that I'm a woman, for example?
1. I don't know. I'm white, i have no experience living life as a black man, i have no black friends and i've never looked at the statistics. However we are not talking about race, we are talking about sex.
AND being disadvantaged does not automatically equal oppression. Being an attractive female is extremely advantages. As an attractive female life would be a lot nicer than an unattractive female or even an attractive male. Does this mean unattractive people are oppressed? I've not really considered this point before thinking about it.
2. What country are you living in where rape is "very rarely harshly punished" ? You're probably thinking about that little piece of feminist propaganda saying a ridiculous high number of women are raped and a ridiculous high number of rapes aren't punished.
I'm not explaining it for you, use some critical thinking and look into how they got their "data".
Who was it who said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".. Appropriate i'd say.
3. Pretty sure there isn't. Well there is, but it's the opposite to what you probably think.
It's a misconception that someone who is drunk cannot consent to sex. You feminists (maybe not you personally, but many who belong to your "group") believe that if a drunk man takes home a drunk women, he raped her. You think the responsibility to asses drunkenness and consent relies solely on the man.
If a woman is passed out, everyone knows it is wrong to **** her (or do anything to her). Bad people exists and bad people will do things they know are wrong.
Everyone also knows if you are sober and a woman is paralytic to the point where she is clearly not with it, and you **** her, this is wrong.
IF two people are ridiculously drunk and they go home together and have sex and the woman regrets it, there's a high chance she can ruin that mans life. But funny how when a man gets ridiculously drunk and wakes up next to a whale with no recollection we don't think "oh my god i was raped" we think "oh christ, i seriously need to drink less" and hope the mates don't find out.
Feminists perpetuate the myth that man = aggressor, woman = victim.
4. Okay, but most feminists think you're Satan himself if you make a rape joke or even a kitchen joke.
Original post by Spetznaaz
1. I don't know. I'm white, i have no experience living life as a black man, i have no black friends and i've never looked at the statistics. However we are not talking about race, we are talking about sex.
AND being disadvantaged does not automatically equal oppression. Being an attractive female is extremely advantages. As an attractive female life would be a lot nicer than an unattractive female or even an attractive male. Does this mean unattractive people are oppressed? I've not really considered this point before thinking about it.
2. What country are you living in where rape is "very rarely harshly punished" ? You're probably thinking about that little piece of feminist propaganda saying a ridiculous high number of women are raped and a ridiculous high number of rapes aren't punished.
I'm not explaining it for you, use some critical thinking and look into how they got their "data".
Who was it who said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".. Appropriate i'd say.
3. Pretty sure there isn't. Well there is, but it's the opposite to what you probably think.
It's a misconception that someone who is drunk cannot consent to sex. You feminists (maybe not you personally, but many who belong to your "group") believe that if a drunk man takes home a drunk women, he raped her. You think the responsibility to asses drunkenness and consent relies solely on the man.
If a woman is passed out, everyone knows it is wrong to **** her (or do anything to her). Bad people exists and bad people will do things they know are wrong.
Everyone also knows if you are sober and a woman is paralytic to the point where she is clearly not with it, and you **** her, this is wrong.
IF two people are ridiculously drunk and they go home together and have sex and the woman regrets it, there's a high chance she can ruin that mans life. But funny how when a man gets ridiculously drunk and wakes up next to a whale with no recollection we don't think "oh my god i was raped" we think "oh christ, i seriously need to drink less" and hope the mates don't find out.
Feminists perpetuate the myth that man = aggressor, woman = victim.
4. Okay, but most feminists think you're Satan himself if you make a rape joke or even a kitchen joke.
AND being disadvantaged does not automatically equal oppression. Being an attractive female is extremely advantages. As an attractive female life would be a lot nicer than an unattractive female or even an attractive male. Does this mean unattractive people are oppressed? I've not really considered this point before thinking about it.
2. What country are you living in where rape is "very rarely harshly punished" ? You're probably thinking about that little piece of feminist propaganda saying a ridiculous high number of women are raped and a ridiculous high number of rapes aren't punished.
I'm not explaining it for you, use some critical thinking and look into how they got their "data".
Who was it who said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".. Appropriate i'd say.
3. Pretty sure there isn't. Well there is, but it's the opposite to what you probably think.
It's a misconception that someone who is drunk cannot consent to sex. You feminists (maybe not you personally, but many who belong to your "group") believe that if a drunk man takes home a drunk women, he raped her. You think the responsibility to asses drunkenness and consent relies solely on the man.
If a woman is passed out, everyone knows it is wrong to **** her (or do anything to her). Bad people exists and bad people will do things they know are wrong.
Everyone also knows if you are sober and a woman is paralytic to the point where she is clearly not with it, and you **** her, this is wrong.
IF two people are ridiculously drunk and they go home together and have sex and the woman regrets it, there's a high chance she can ruin that mans life. But funny how when a man gets ridiculously drunk and wakes up next to a whale with no recollection we don't think "oh my god i was raped" we think "oh christ, i seriously need to drink less" and hope the mates don't find out.
Feminists perpetuate the myth that man = aggressor, woman = victim.
4. Okay, but most feminists think you're Satan himself if you make a rape joke or even a kitchen joke.
I wanted to Rep this, but have none left
Original post by Ade9000
It could also be the fact that people see believing in equal rights, gender equality and all that stuff, as just being a decent human being. Isn't that something to strive towards?
Absolutely, in an ideal world
Original post by Sherry1993
To add to your point - The woman doing the photo shoots, for the 'Lads Mags' fully consent to this, so I dont understand all the rad fems, and where their problem is?! To me that is giving a woman her equal rights, her freedom to choose her career, but the Rad Fem says she cant do that?
They simply contradict themselves with this one!!!
Honestly Modern Fems are a joke.
The dont stand for anything.
They simply contradict themselves with this one!!!
Honestly Modern Fems are a joke.
The dont stand for anything.
Yep. If only the suffragettes could see modern day feminists... They were REAL Feminists.
Original post by Plainview
I don't support it. It is a reductionist and myopic worldview, allied to Marxism and deconstructionism, that distorts and misconstrues. It is also authoritarian and excessively truculent. I support gender equality on a wider egalitarian and less radical basis.
do you think you sound clever or something when you use words in such a way nobody can understand what you're saying
Original post by ravishingrick69
do you think you sound clever or something when you use words in such a way nobody can understand what you're saying
I'm not interested in what I sound like.
Original post by PQ
My feeling is that feminists have focused on the patriarchy to emphasise that the "enemy" is not men but the systems of society that oppress us all (ie the stereotypes that influence our development from birth and harm boys and girls who have any interest or inclination to step outside "traditional gender roles").
The concept was publicised to try to change the debate away from men v women.
But you're right that the intersections between different types of oppression are crucial for feminism to address if we want to make true progress without throwing our sisters, brothers, sons and daughters under the bus. That's why intersectionality (which focuses on the broad brush term of Kyriarchy (the system that oppresses all sorts of people in all sorts of ways)) is such a growing area of feminism and feminist debate (although the concept has been around for decades it was coined and used by marginalised feminists and so main stream feminists seem to have missed the boat). Feminism might focus on how these interesections hurt women in particular (for example in discussion on rape quite often the likelihood of disabled women and men to be victims of rape is often ignored) the side effect is to make all of society more inclusive and less oppressive.
The concept was publicised to try to change the debate away from men v women.
But you're right that the intersections between different types of oppression are crucial for feminism to address if we want to make true progress without throwing our sisters, brothers, sons and daughters under the bus. That's why intersectionality (which focuses on the broad brush term of Kyriarchy (the system that oppresses all sorts of people in all sorts of ways)) is such a growing area of feminism and feminist debate (although the concept has been around for decades it was coined and used by marginalised feminists and so main stream feminists seem to have missed the boat). Feminism might focus on how these interesections hurt women in particular (for example in discussion on rape quite often the likelihood of disabled women and men to be victims of rape is often ignored) the side effect is to make all of society more inclusive and less oppressive.
Kyriachy makes perfect sense to me.
I understand the way in which some feminists use patriarchy to describe the system which restricts the roles of both men and women. However it is too often used as a weapon against men and to devalue the achievements of men by ascribing said success to being privileged by gender in some way. Believe it or not I don't attribute the minor success' and failures of my short life to date to a system, rigged in my favour, based solely on my y chromosome.
Original post by Liquid Swordsman
Yeah we had 52 male prime ministers and one female. Not really sure this helps your point...
Are there statistics on how many women run for those political positions? The job representation argument is one I see a lot but people who use it rarely take into account how many women are trying to get into these positions.
Original post by Liquid Swordsman
So one story about a friend disproves the whole thing?
So one story about a friend disproves the whole thing?
The story isnt even necessary, I cant conceive that any significant amount of people would support a so called 'rape culture'. You dont need factual data to believe that.
Original post by Rananagirl
You're correct; If a woman wants to study computer science, she can. However, computer science, engineering, physics etc. are, for whatever arbitrary reasoning, classed as "masculine" by most people in our society. This means that women aren't encouraged to do so, aren't taught to aim high, or perhaps never even saw it as an option due to its perceived masculinity. The same is also true of men and typically "feminine" jobs (see nursing, for example).
I think you'll find that women are very much so encouraged to pursue jobs in areas that aren't well represented by women. The only issue is choice, women have so much choice to choose to do which jobs they want to do, women simply choose not to do these jobs. You'll find its much different in other countries where women might have less choice and may just wish to get the best education possible and a possible job because they have the opportunity to.
Society sees them as masculine because its a simple fact that more men do these jobs.
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