ISIS in Iraq megathread

Because moderate Groups think with a clear head sometimes.

Why kill when they can sell them?
Maybe they bought weapons from the Profit of $50,000 they bagged from selling Steven Sotloff to ISIS.

A group of Muslim leaders condemn ISIS and call on David Cameron not to use the phrase 'Islamic State' because it gives ISIS legitimacy and is a slur on the Islamic faith.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/13/term-islamic-state-slur-faith-david-cameron

I completely agree. The world should not allow this vocal, violent minority to represent the silent, peaceful majority. ISIS are a slur on my faith, their actions are not in my name and I furthermore believe that their advent is one of the signs of Judgement Day (as told to us by the prophet Muhammad SAW who warned us of their evil and who called them 'khawarij').

Nobody really cares to be honest. This isn't even slightly important.

If they call themselves Islamic State, that's what we call them.

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you should see what IS supporters are saying on twitter...... -.-" im tempted to make the big T on them . all these people need to die all of them no mercy such plagued minds digusting.

Just pathetic people. What can you say about them.

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A group of Muslim leaders condemn ISIS and call on David Cameron not to use the phrase 'Islamic State' because it gives ISIS legitimacy and is a slur on the Islamic faith.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/13/term-islamic-state-slur-faith-david-cameron

I completely agree. The world should not allow this vocal, violent minority to represent the silent, peaceful majority. ISIS are a slur on my faith, their actions are not in my name and I furthermore believe that their advent is one of the signs of Judgement Day (as told to us by the prophet Muhammad SAW who warned us of their evil and who called them 'khawarij').

A great deal of non-Muslims don't buy the truth of your religion and, for many of us, we can actually see how a lot of the problems with extremists trace right back to the doctrines of the religion you share with them. It's an extremist religion. From its sexism and outright misogyny to its murderous rulings regarding dissenters, its pages-worth of hate towards unbelievers, the permissibility of slavery and sex slaves and so much more. Not to mention the imperialist history through every single generation until Western forces put an end to the Caliphate.

So-called "moderate" apologists who, instead of reflecting and taking a critical look at their set of 7th century dogma, only reaffirm it and protect it from being challenged and so essentially turn a blind eye to the fundamentalists who actually take those beliefs very seriously and put them into practice in the 21st century.

Your apologia does nothing to help tackle the problem and only seeks to act as a PR damage-control campaign in favour of your particular interpretation of a religion that seems to be dangerously open to many interpretations when people who, like you, think they know the True Islam™.

You seem to have your own idea of what constitutes "True Islam": that true Islam is extremist and supports ISIS. So everything you've typed about Muslims "thinking they know True Islam" applies to you. It speaks volumes though, that it is non-Muslims like 'agrippatoes' and 'ggmu' who are keen to associate ISIS with Islam, and that it is Muslims like myself, Ganhad, Enoxial, the president of the Islamic Society of Britain, the president of the Association of Muslim Lawyers, and president of the Associasion of British Muslims who are keen to distance ISIS from Islam. Hmm... I wonder who is most likely to present an honest view? A bunch of atheists, a minority of Muslims, or the Muslim majority?

I am neither a moderate nor an apologist. I am a Muslim, full stop. I concur with the majority of Muslims in opposing ISIS, and not out of some petty desire to please you: but because it is supported both by Islamic eschatology and the good advice of the Prophet Muhammad SAW in the hadiths, whose truth becomes more apparent by the day. Then there is the laughably stark contrast between ISIS' pseudo-caliphate and the original, great Islamic Caliphates which witnessed the Golden Age of advances in almost every field, including the establishment of the world's oldest University, Al-Karaouine, by a Muslim woman (so you throwing the term 'caliphate' in there and sticking labels like 'misogyny' onto it doesn't prove anything).

Truth must be declared as it is a Muslim's responsibilty to spread da'weh, though this could be translated to PR for people like yourself who can only see the materialistic and worldy purposes behind doing things.

By all means carry on telling people that, as an anti-Muslim campaigner, your version of Islam accords with ISIS, that this is what you would love for everyone to believe as it fits your anti-Muslim agenda - and let this be a lesson to teach the small minority of unguided ISIS supporters amongst us Muslims *reformcough*.

If they're holding high profile Western hostages they are going to make people think they've been killed to try and have their demands met. Maybe the executions are real? Who knows, all I'm saying is that they don't look that convincing.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist nut job, I'm just weighing in with my own observations.

Not a bad try for an evident novice at thought, but you overlook the essential simple point. Notwithstanding whom is trying to conflate or associate Islam with ISIS, ISIS ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES WITH ISLAM.

Eo Ipso, his point, ( that to which you were attempting to respond ) although faute de mieux, stands. Islam cannot be separated from ISIS until or unless ISIS declare themselves non-Islamic ( unlikely) or as a new interpretation of Islam. It isn't just up to you, such is the nature of religious belief. ISIS have a claim to be Islamic in some way - that's the ineffable centre of your problem.

Lastly, you undermine the force of any argument when you arrogate to islam, preposterous and risible claims such as : " … advances in almost every field " ( advances in one or two fields, but none that advanced Muslim society - which remained backward, as distinguished from European societies - one notes you are writing in English … a society you have chosen because if its International superiority in every field. Especially the liberation of women.
And as for : " including the establishment of the world's oldest University, Al-Karaouine, by a Muslim woman .." , you've made a complete fool of yourself whereas prior, you at least could be forgiven for being simply naive and unsophisticated.

In sum, I quite admire your attempt to dissociate Islam from ISIS, but it's the fact that the rationale flows 'vice versa' so to speak, that is ineluctable.

james ( trinity college, cambridge )

It is you who have missed the point. No matter what claims and associations ISIS makes to Islam, they are not worth legitimizing because ISIS IS A MINORITY AMONGST MUSLIMS (I do not deny that they are Muslims) and is opposed by the MAJORITY of Muslims which by rights ought to represent true Islam.

This point I have reinforced from my first post #1795 to this present one. Saying 'ISIS associate themselves with Islam', and that therefore you take ISIS word that they are correct and yourself associate ISIS with Islam, is fallacious becaues in doing this you are judging the beliefs of a MAJORITY by the contradictory beliefs/actions of the MINORITY.

Confusion cleared up. Apart from that you make no discernible point throughout the rest of your message, riddled as it is with ad hominem, completely irrelevant remarks ('you speak English' proves nothing, this is now and that was then) and baseless statements (Islamic societies remained backward throughout the caliphates) which are really too sweeping, subjective, and lacking in evidence to justify response. As regards Al-Karaouine being the world's oldest university, I can only assume that Cambridge pride is the reason behind your ridicule, rather than an intentional attempt to dispute the Guinness World Records and the UNESCO World Heritage Convention.

Just one small point from your past, Nalanda University is the oldest in the world (ironically destroyed by Muslims).

But your apologia is further proof you are wasting your time... While you debate over if they are Muslim or not, they KNOW they are and are killing people because of it.

I have supplied the Guiness World Records and the UNESCO World Heritage Convention as sources backing my claim - care to provide evidence for yours?



Clearly you cannot read my post, where I have said that "I do not deny that they [ISIS] are Muslim". Hopeless.

Decrying ISIS as a Muslim goes a long way towards preventing potential recruits to it from joining it, which alone makes it a worthy cause justifying my time - and it is the anti-Muslim campaigners, such as yourself, who are distracting from this with claims that ISIS is entirely Islamic and that I have no right to decry it, thus wasting my time.

As regards Al-Karaouine being the world's oldest university, I can only assume that Cambridge pride is the reason behind your ridicule, rather than an intentional attempt to dispute the Guinness World Records and the UNESCO World Heritage Convention.

Oldest running university, fair enough. You are correct.

But what is known is that the institute at Nalanda was a university, and there is no doubt it predates any other. Taxila is an even older university. I'm sure it'll be declared as such when Western academia ventures past the middle east.

Oh, fair enough. I don't think it'll make a blind bit of difference and you'll probably end up creating an alienated group of Muslims who feel they're right and now you're wrong. Such is the nature of Islam.

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also takfir on isis http://www.islamagainstextremism.com/articles/nycmqzd-shaykh-salih-al-suhaymee-on-isis-daish-and-the-alleged-khalifah.cfm