Men are now more objectified than women
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Original post by Smash Bandicoot
To this day Twilight consolidates the princess mentality in many 13 year old girls as 50SOG does and likely will for 16 to 18 year olds-oh look the average age of a user on this site
To this day Twilight consolidates the princess mentality in many 13 year old girls as 50SOG does and likely will for 16 to 18 year olds-oh look the average age of a user on this site
I was one of those 13 year olds and by the time the third book came out I was like **** this **** that bella has issues and edward is a loser
Those 16-18 year olds will turn 20 one day and be like **** this **** Christian and Ana have serious issues.
Spoiler
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
You can't change women's behaviour socially i.e. without legal enforcement, without convincing them of why they should.
It doesn't matter whether they agree or not. If you think double standards are immoral then you should avoid engaging in or pandering to behaviours that enable them, whether women agree with you or not. A lot of women will disagree or look down on you -- doesn't mean you shouldn't do it anyway. True change might not even be possible but you can at least enforce this change in your own life.
Original post by ilem
It doesn't matter whether they agree or not. If you think double standards are immoral then you should avoid engaging in or pandering to behaviours that enable them, whether women agree with you or not. A lot of women will disagree or look down on you -- doesn't mean you shouldn't do it anyway. True change might not even be possible but you can at least enforce this change in your own life.
I try but even my mum has cold shouldered me for calling out a double standard, let's not even start with my ex...
Original post by SiminaM
Oh yes in fifty shades it was totally Christian's body who was objectified not the poor girl tied up, blindfolded and used as a sex doll and who had her diet and everything controlled by a maniac.
Oh wow women like hot men, THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION.
Seriously, 2 movies to say this?
Women are still those who worry about boob size and butt shape and body haor, etc. All we want from men is a ****ing six pack and strong arms. And some bitches want big ***** but I know nothing about that stuff so I'm gonna stop.
As a girl, I found out guys like when they are said to be hot and are very cocky so what's the problem?
When it comes to looks, we are all objectified. The difference is, hotties have a big advantage while the rest are well you'll do or ew gtfo you're not even bangable(line taken from a troll thread but it works!)
Oh wow women like hot men, THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION.
Seriously, 2 movies to say this?
Women are still those who worry about boob size and butt shape and body haor, etc. All we want from men is a ****ing six pack and strong arms. And some bitches want big ***** but I know nothing about that stuff so I'm gonna stop.
As a girl, I found out guys like when they are said to be hot and are very cocky so what's the problem?
When it comes to looks, we are all objectified. The difference is, hotties have a big advantage while the rest are well you'll do or ew gtfo you're not even bangable(line taken from a troll thread but it works!)
Sis,you're on slaying mode right now
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by ilem
It doesn't matter whether they agree or not. If you think double standards are immoral then you should avoid engaging in or pandering to behaviours that enable them, whether women agree with you or not. A lot of women will disagree or look down on you -- doesn't mean you shouldn't do it anyway. True change might not even be possible but you can at least enforce this change in your own life.
Do you think that situation sounds enticing to a young, heterosexual male?
Original post by macromicro
Do you think that situation sounds enticing to a young, heterosexual male?
Exactly. Attraction is amoral and men need to maintain frame
Original post by SiminaM
I was saying that 50 shades is a bad example of male objectification because the one being objectificated to oblivion in that book is the girl.
It really isn't a bad example, most of the people who read the book and will watch the film are women and they're going to be watching the guy not the woman (except for the lesbians of course)
Posted from TSR Mobile
I hate it when someone mentions objectification.
Original post by macromicro
Do you think that situation sounds enticing to a young, heterosexual male?
It sounds much more enticing than changing your entire personality just to appeal to women.
Not to mention there are women around who would be happy to have an egalitarian relationship, though probably not many.
Original post by SiminaM
As long as I live, I will not accept that.
People finally discovered Twilight was crap. This will follow too - I suppose after fans will say 'Oh the movie was worse than the book' then they will realise that what they thought the book described was the horror the movie shows and they will be like EWWWW Christian is such a psycho!
50SOG is a book about psychiatric issues that lead to BDSM and about insecurities that lead to becoming a sex slave. ****ing medieval crap there's no modernity.
People finally discovered Twilight was crap. This will follow too - I suppose after fans will say 'Oh the movie was worse than the book' then they will realise that what they thought the book described was the horror the movie shows and they will be like EWWWW Christian is such a psycho!
50SOG is a book about psychiatric issues that lead to BDSM and about insecurities that lead to becoming a sex slave. ****ing medieval crap there's no modernity.
If I could be bothered to check through all my computer files, I'd probably be able to find Trillian conversations about how awful Twilgiht was, dating from, er 2006. At the time, it seemed like there were Twilight fans everywhere, and detesting Twilight was a niche, 'geeky' opinion.
50 SoG is just some Twilight fanfiction, and it will go the same way. If you google a bit, you'll find loads of people taking the mickey out of it with varying levels of intensity, already.
Original post by ilem
It sounds much more enticing than changing your entire personality just to appeal to women.
No, it clearly and evidently doesn't.
Men change in order to avoid loneliness and unpopularity and frustration. You say "just to appeal to women" as if this doesn't dominate the aspirations of young, heterosexual men outside of or perhaps equal to their career goals (which are often themselves a means to attract women, i.e. high salary, prestige, ability to support a family, etc).
Original post by macromicro
No, it clearly and evidently doesn't.
Men change in order to avoid loneliness and unpopularity and frustration. You say "just to appeal to women" as if this doesn't dominate the aspirations of young, heterosexual men outside of or perhaps equal to their career goals (which are often themselves a means to attract women, i.e. high salary, prestige, ability to support a family, etc).
Men change in order to avoid loneliness and unpopularity and frustration. You say "just to appeal to women" as if this doesn't dominate the aspirations of young, heterosexual men outside of or perhaps equal to their career goals (which are often themselves a means to attract women, i.e. high salary, prestige, ability to support a family, etc).
I'm saying I don't consider it a good thing for someone to build their life as a means of attracting a partner, particularly when that involves change that serves no purpose other than to meet standards of masculinity that society says you should meet when you yourself have no innate desire to be that way.
You can have a happy life without devoting it to chasing women. It's quite liberating.
Original post by ilem
I'm saying I don't consider it a good thing for someone to build their life as a means of attracting a partner, particularly when that involves change that serves no purpose other than to meet standards of masculinity that society says you should meet when you yourself have no innate desire to be that way.
I know. I'm saying that young, heterosexual males disagree with you and would rather meet those standards at whatever cost than to suffer loneliness and frustration. This isn't my opinion, it's reality. Personally I'm the opposite and like you said:
Original post by ilem
You can have a happy life without devoting it to chasing women. It's quite liberating.
Which is what I have found to be the case. My point is that most people won't agree, even if they tried it for themselves, they would not feel liberated. You have to be a certain type of person to withstand less attention, lower social status and more sexual and social frustration. Most people will cripple and start meeting the standard again and feel happier for it, and I don't blame them at all.
Original post by SiminaM
Oh yes in fifty shades it was totally Christian's body who was objectified not the poor girl tied up, blindfolded and used as a sex doll and who had her diet and everything controlled by a maniac.
Oh wow women like hot men, THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION.
Seriously, 2 movies to say this?
Women are still those who worry about boob size and butt shape and body haor, etc. All we want from men is a ****ing six pack and strong arms. And some bitches want big ***** but I know nothing about that stuff so I'm gonna stop.
As a girl, I found out guys like when they are said to be hot and are very cocky so what's the problem?
When it comes to looks, we are all objectified. The difference is, hotties have a big advantage while the rest are well you'll do or ew gtfo you're not even bangable(line taken from a troll thread but it works!)
Oh wow women like hot men, THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION.
Seriously, 2 movies to say this?
Women are still those who worry about boob size and butt shape and body haor, etc. All we want from men is a ****ing six pack and strong arms. And some bitches want big ***** but I know nothing about that stuff so I'm gonna stop.
As a girl, I found out guys like when they are said to be hot and are very cocky so what's the problem?
When it comes to looks, we are all objectified. The difference is, hotties have a big advantage while the rest are well you'll do or ew gtfo you're not even bangable(line taken from a troll thread but it works!)
Please, the perfect body for a female is far easier to achieve than it is for a male. Ooooo you have to trim body hair, big ****ing wow, males have to do that on their face daily and their body too.
A perfect women is just one who isn't fat. She doesn't even have to fit or healthy whereas the perfect male has to strong, muscular and low in fat. It's much much harder to achieve.
As far as body is concerned women have it easier.
Original post by Octopus_Garden
Don't worry, they will.
If I could be bothered to check through all my computer files, I'd probably be able to find Trillian conversations about how awful Twilgiht was, dating from, er 2006. At the time, it seemed like there were Twilight fans everywhere, and detesting Twilight was a niche, 'geeky' opinion.
50 SoG is just some Twilight fanfiction, and it will go the same way. If you google a bit, you'll find loads of people taking the mickey out of it with varying levels of intensity, already.
If I could be bothered to check through all my computer files, I'd probably be able to find Trillian conversations about how awful Twilgiht was, dating from, er 2006. At the time, it seemed like there were Twilight fans everywhere, and detesting Twilight was a niche, 'geeky' opinion.
50 SoG is just some Twilight fanfiction, and it will go the same way. If you google a bit, you'll find loads of people taking the mickey out of it with varying levels of intensity, already.
No one really thinks 50 Shades of Grey is a worthy piece of literature that will stand the test of posterity. Your post almost reads as if you think this book has been critically lauded or something. It's no different to a Dan Brown book in that regard. It's popular because a) the author filled a gap in the market for mainstream erotic fiction and b) this eroticism appeals to exaggerated ideals of masculine and feminine attractiveness in modern society, i.e. the innocent, inexperienced, submissive woman and the dominant, experienced, muscular, rich man.
The majority of people who enjoy the series are women and that's because they like the idea of being swept away by a handsome, dominant prince. The author targeted that idea of attractiveness and it paid off, literally.
Original post by macromicro
I know. I'm saying that young, heterosexual males disagree with you and would rather meet those standards at whatever cost than to suffer loneliness and frustration. This isn't my opinion, it's reality. Personally I'm the opposite and like you said:
Which is what I have found to be the case. My point is that most people won't agree, even if they tried it for themselves, they would not feel liberated. You have to be a certain type of person to withstand less attention, lower social status and more sexual and social frustration. Most people will cripple and start meeting the standard again and feel happier for it, and I don't blame them at all.
Which is what I have found to be the case. My point is that most people won't agree, even if they tried it for themselves, they would not feel liberated. You have to be a certain type of person to withstand less attention, lower social status and more sexual and social frustration. Most people will cripple and start meeting the standard again and feel happier for it, and I don't blame them at all.
I think a lot of young men aren't aware of the possibility to have such a lifestyle as everything in their immediate environment screams at them that female approval is the only way to happiness and self worth. It's certainly hard to rewire yourself away from that mindset and to a lot of people changing is probably easier and offers more of an immediate reward. I just don't think it's ultimately very rewarding to change yourself in that way and whether it's possible to be truly happy with yourself knowing that you caved in to the pressure.
Then again, most people probably don't think about this all that much and just go along with what they think will make them happy.
Original post by macromicro
No one really thinks 50 Shades of Grey is a worthy piece of literature that will stand the test of posterity. Your post almost reads as if you think this book has been critically lauded or something. It's no different to a Dan Brown book in that regard. It's popular because a) the author filled a gap in the market for mainstream erotic fiction and b) this eroticism appeals to exaggerated ideals of masculine and feminine attractiveness in modern society, i.e. the innocent, inexperienced, submissive woman and the dominant, experienced, muscular, rich man.
The majority of people who enjoy the series are women and that's because they like the idea of being swept away by a handsome, dominant prince. The author targeted that idea of attractiveness and it paid off, literally.
The majority of people who enjoy the series are women and that's because they like the idea of being swept away by a handsome, dominant prince. The author targeted that idea of attractiveness and it paid off, literally.
*fetches best longbow and hies self to the archery range to practise*
Don't worry, I know the difference between critical acclaim and bestsellerdom. I also know the pain of being irritated by one particular best-seller everywhere you go (and its knock-offs).
The 50 SoG thing is already passing, so another book will hit the shelves, and spawn a fad. And then publishers will check their files of previous turned down manuscripts for something similar, and scour internet fan fiction sites for something (vaguely) printable in a similar vein.Published novels once available as fan fiction.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by SiminaM
Oh yes in fifty shades it was totally Christian's body who was objectified not the poor girl tied up, blindfolded and used as a sex doll and who had her diet and everything controlled by a maniac.
Oh wow women like hot men, THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION.
Seriously, 2 movies to say this?
Women are still those who worry about boob size and butt shape and body haor, etc. All we want from men is a ****ing six pack and strong arms. And some bitches want big ***** but I know nothing about that stuff so I'm gonna stop.
As a girl, I found out guys like when they are said to be hot and are very cocky so what's the problem?
When it comes to looks, we are all objectified. The difference is, hotties have a big advantage while the rest are well you'll do or ew gtfo you're not even bangable(line taken from a troll thread but it works!)
Oh wow women like hot men, THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION.
Seriously, 2 movies to say this?
Women are still those who worry about boob size and butt shape and body haor, etc. All we want from men is a ****ing six pack and strong arms. And some bitches want big ***** but I know nothing about that stuff so I'm gonna stop.
As a girl, I found out guys like when they are said to be hot and are very cocky so what's the problem?
When it comes to looks, we are all objectified. The difference is, hotties have a big advantage while the rest are well you'll do or ew gtfo you're not even bangable(line taken from a troll thread but it works!)
Yeah Christian Grey is an objectified character. Billionaire CEO, shoots cars and lake houses and other gifts out of his arse at the girl. The whole idea that he would be interested and care enough to start a BDSM relationship with an insignificant student journalist is completely fantastical.
Objectification need not be about bodies, to say it is is to artificially restrict the definition so it only encompasses women.
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