BBC admit Farage was right & admit they did fix the election debate audience
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Original post by limetang
As has been said, the audience wasn't supposed to represent the people speaking, but to represent the political make up of the country.
Where was this ever actually said?
It seems to me that it was meant to combine polling and prominence with giving everyone actually present in the debate a fair shot. And so giving the larger parties more representation, but not necessarily proportional to their size.
Before we start accusing the BBC with various conspiracy theories has anyone considered that perhaps the reason why there were so many left wingers in the audience was that the majority of the candidates in the debate were left wing.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
The democratic deficit in the EU and regaining certain powers is about the only issue I have any common ground with them on. But on the free movement of people I'm not too bothered, I just wish they taught languages better here so young British people would have a better chance to enter the European job market. Cameron wants to renegotiate to protect tax evaders, banker's bonuses while removing welfare protection and the human rights act. So the Conservatives re-negotiation is a no-no. UKIP want to leave, whereas I just want the EU's powers curbed.
But as an immigrant I don't enjoy being blamed for every single problem in society.
But as an immigrant I don't enjoy being blamed for every single problem in society.
Is there going to be a major conspiracy against UKIP on election day?
Everyone knows that the Lib Dems are a non-entity and UKIP are the party of the people
BUT
I predict that UKIP will end up with 1 or 2 MPs and the Lib Dems will end up with about 30 or so!!!
Could this be the influence of the BBC rigging the ballot??
Everyone knows that the Lib Dems are a non-entity and UKIP are the party of the people
BUT
I predict that UKIP will end up with 1 or 2 MPs and the Lib Dems will end up with about 30 or so!!!
Could this be the influence of the BBC rigging the ballot??
The audience was pretty much a resurrection of the Soviet Politburo.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
Could this be the influence of the BBC rigging the ballot??
Could this be the influence of the BBC rigging the ballot??
If Mary Berry and Gary Lineker are found stuffing ballot boxes, be sure to let us know.
Original post by SeaPony
I hope no one is surprised by this... BBC as usual. Typical Brussels propaganda. So out of control.
So the BBC is controlled from Brussels!?
Original post by SeaPony
I hope no one is surprised by this... BBC as usual. Typical Brussels propaganda. So out of control.
So the BBC is controlled from Brussels!?
Original post by A Mysterious Lord
True, but it was an even split for each party, which in this case meant 80% of the audience was generally centre-left/left-leaning.
Not a UKIP voter, just pointing out a fact.
Not a UKIP voter, just pointing out a fact.
You need to go back and learn some basic maths. The Express story says that the audience was in a ratio of 5 Conservative, 5 Labour, 4 Lib Dem, 3 UKIP. 2 SNP, 2 Green and 1 Plaid (total 22).
Eight out of 22 were right leaning (Conservative and UKIP), which makes up 36% of the audience. The Lib Dems are declared centre leaning, so that's 18%. Even if you say all of the rest are left leaning they comprise 45% of the audience - obviously less than half.
I don't see that this is radically different to the UK population as a whole.
This Wikipedia article reveals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010
In the 2010 election:
36% voted Conservative
29% voted Labour
23% voted Lib Dem
3.1 voted UKIP
1.7 voted SNP
0.9 voted Green
0.6 voted Plaid
However, voters have likely shifted since then, here's what the Telegraph (hope that's not too left wing for you) poll tracker says:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11374181/General-Election-2015-latest-poll-tracker.html
34.5 % Conservative
33.6% Labour
12.7% UKIP
8.4% Lib Dems
5.1% Green
That adds up to 94.3%, and if we pretend that the remaining 5.7% are SNP and Plaid, the left vote is (everyone except Conservative, UKIP and Lib Dems) 44.4% of the vote - pretty close to what the Express has described. Obviously UKIP are therefore under-represented (to the benefit of the Lib Dems, and probably the SNP), but that's likely to have been some kind of calculation based on the number of seats they will eventually secure.
Original post by typonaut
So the BBC is controlled from Brussels!?
You need to go back and learn some basic maths. The Express story says that the audience was in a ratio of 5 Conservative, 5 Labour, 4 Lib Dem, 3 UKIP. 2 SNP, 2 Green and 1 Plaid (total 22).
Eight out of 22 were right leaning (Conservative and UKIP), which makes up 36% of the audience. The Lib Dems are declared centre leaning, so that's 18%. Even if you say all of the rest are left leaning they comprise 45% of the audience - obviously less than half.
I don't see that this is radically different to the UK population as a whole.
This Wikipedia article reveals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010
In the 2010 election:
36% voted Conservative
29% voted Labour
23% voted Lib Dem
3.1 voted UKIP
1.7 voted SNP
0.9 voted Green
0.6 voted Plaid
However, voters have likely shifted since then, here's what the Telegraph (hope that's not too left wing for you) poll tracker says:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11374181/General-Election-2015-latest-poll-tracker.html
34.5 % Conservative
33.6% Labour
12.7% UKIP
8.4% Lib Dems
5.1% Green
That adds up to 94.3%, and if we pretend that the remaining 5.7% are SNP and Plaid, the left vote is (everyone except Conservative, UKIP and Lib Dems) 44.4% of the vote - pretty close to what the Express has described. Obviously UKIP are therefore under-represented (to the benefit of the Lib Dems, and probably the SNP), but that's likely to have been some kind of calculation based on the number of seats they will eventually secure.
You need to go back and learn some basic maths. The Express story says that the audience was in a ratio of 5 Conservative, 5 Labour, 4 Lib Dem, 3 UKIP. 2 SNP, 2 Green and 1 Plaid (total 22).
Eight out of 22 were right leaning (Conservative and UKIP), which makes up 36% of the audience. The Lib Dems are declared centre leaning, so that's 18%. Even if you say all of the rest are left leaning they comprise 45% of the audience - obviously less than half.
I don't see that this is radically different to the UK population as a whole.
This Wikipedia article reveals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010
In the 2010 election:
36% voted Conservative
29% voted Labour
23% voted Lib Dem
3.1 voted UKIP
1.7 voted SNP
0.9 voted Green
0.6 voted Plaid
However, voters have likely shifted since then, here's what the Telegraph (hope that's not too left wing for you) poll tracker says:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11374181/General-Election-2015-latest-poll-tracker.html
34.5 % Conservative
33.6% Labour
12.7% UKIP
8.4% Lib Dems
5.1% Green
That adds up to 94.3%, and if we pretend that the remaining 5.7% are SNP and Plaid, the left vote is (everyone except Conservative, UKIP and Lib Dems) 44.4% of the vote - pretty close to what the Express has described. Obviously UKIP are therefore under-represented (to the benefit of the Lib Dems, and probably the SNP), but that's likely to have been some kind of calculation based on the number of seats they will eventually secure.
44% of those that are voting, so 44% of the 160, which is 70 people, not 102.
But then doing the same the other way the right leaning is 47.2% which is 76 people, not 58.
The audience looks like a fairly proportionate spread between the parties. Labour and Tories with the highest amount, then lib dems, UKIP, SNP and Greens before finally Plaid.
The fact that that equates to 1/3 of the audience being right wing is just the way the cards are dealt. Should they give UKIP disproportionately more audience members to stop them whining?
Sorry Farage but an actual proportionate representation of the UK voters are going to disagree with you. Deal with it.
The fact that that equates to 1/3 of the audience being right wing is just the way the cards are dealt. Should they give UKIP disproportionately more audience members to stop them whining?
Sorry Farage but an actual proportionate representation of the UK voters are going to disagree with you. Deal with it.
I think you must be a Troll for the Communist Party. Either that, or you are a complete idiot.
The EU is controlled by the treaties signed by the governments of the member states. Those treaties dictate that the controlling entities of the EU are the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament. The Council of Ministers is made up of members of the government of each member state - ie they are directly elected by the citizens of each member state, or they are nominated by the government of each member state (and each government is obviously elected by its citizens). The European Parliament is directly elected by the citizens of each member state.
It therefore seems obvious to me that both the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament are democratic entities whose members are elected, or who directly represent the governments of the member states.
The third part of the European Union is the European Commission. This is effectively the civil service of the EU, and is controlled by the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament. Further, the top jobs in the Commission are filled by politicians, or former politicians from the member states, who are again directly elected or nominated by the governments of those member states. Complaining that the people who work in the Commission are un-elected seems akin to arguing that employees in the UK civil service should be elected.
Therefore, the whole EU is controlled either by representatives of the member states, nominated by the governments of those states, or by the directly elected Members of the European Parliament (elected by the citizens of the member states).
The EU is controlled by the treaties signed by the governments of the member states. Those treaties dictate that the controlling entities of the EU are the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament. The Council of Ministers is made up of members of the government of each member state - ie they are directly elected by the citizens of each member state, or they are nominated by the government of each member state (and each government is obviously elected by its citizens). The European Parliament is directly elected by the citizens of each member state.
It therefore seems obvious to me that both the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament are democratic entities whose members are elected, or who directly represent the governments of the member states.
The third part of the European Union is the European Commission. This is effectively the civil service of the EU, and is controlled by the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament. Further, the top jobs in the Commission are filled by politicians, or former politicians from the member states, who are again directly elected or nominated by the governments of those member states. Complaining that the people who work in the Commission are un-elected seems akin to arguing that employees in the UK civil service should be elected.
Therefore, the whole EU is controlled either by representatives of the member states, nominated by the governments of those states, or by the directly elected Members of the European Parliament (elected by the citizens of the member states).
Original post by Jammy Duel
44% of those that are voting, so 44% of the 160, which is 70 people, not 102.
But then doing the same the other way the right leaning is 47.2% which is 76 people, not 58.
But then doing the same the other way the right leaning is 47.2% which is 76 people, not 58.
I am not understanding your point at all, because although you throw in a load of numbers you don't explain what they represent.
If I take it that 160 is the number of audience members, and 44.4% of those is 70, what we seem to find, if we apply the ratio supplied by the Express, is that actually 73 member of the audience were left-leaning. I don't see that this is too far from what the polls or election results indicate.
As previously, it is possible that the centre, ie the Lib Dems are over-represented at the expense of UKIP. But another way of looking at it is that the Centre and Right had 52% of the audience - which is approximately in-line with their overall vote share.
Original post by ChickenMadness
I'm voting for Nigel. He's the only one that speaks truth and answers the questions directly. The others all deflect questions and don't state exactly what they're going to do lol. Rather saying 'I think a change in attitude would be good' just lol.
Because everyone knows its always best to vote based on personality rather than policy
Original post by leemer
Because everyone knows its always best to vote based on personality rather than policy
Nah his party is the only one that gives straight answers lol.
So all politicians, including UKIP, are controlled by some kind of capitalist conspiracy, led by the banks, and this undermines democracy?
The bit I'm not really following about that is: if this is true, then what is the distinction between the UK parliament and the EU? Or are you thinking that none of them represent democracy?
Oh, I got it, the whole world is an elaborate experiment run by superior alien beings, who manifest themselves as white mice, and they control the whole thing. Better watch out that the Vogons don't mess it up then.
I knew you UKIP supporters were out there on the fringe, but I didn't realise that you were all complete lunatics.
The bit I'm not really following about that is: if this is true, then what is the distinction between the UK parliament and the EU? Or are you thinking that none of them represent democracy?
Oh, I got it, the whole world is an elaborate experiment run by superior alien beings, who manifest themselves as white mice, and they control the whole thing. Better watch out that the Vogons don't mess it up then.
I knew you UKIP supporters were out there on the fringe, but I didn't realise that you were all complete lunatics.
Original post by typonaut
I am not understanding your point at all, because although you throw in a load of numbers you don't explain what they represent.
If I take it that 160 is the number of audience members, and 44.4% of those is 70, what we seem to find, if we apply the ratio supplied by the Express, is that actually 73 member of the audience were left-leaning. I don't see that this is too far from what the polls or election results indicate.
As previously, it is possible that the centre, ie the Lib Dems are over-represented at the expense of UKIP. But another way of looking at it is that the Centre and Right had 52% of the audience - which is approximately in-line with their overall vote share.
If I take it that 160 is the number of audience members, and 44.4% of those is 70, what we seem to find, if we apply the ratio supplied by the Express, is that actually 73 member of the audience were left-leaning. I don't see that this is too far from what the polls or election results indicate.
As previously, it is possible that the centre, ie the Lib Dems are over-represented at the expense of UKIP. But another way of looking at it is that the Centre and Right had 52% of the audience - which is approximately in-line with their overall vote share.
Saying the right and centre(-right) are correct is irrelevant, the claim wasn't that the right+centre right was wrong, it was that the right was. The methodology of setting up of the audience is just plain bad. And the only reason that when you throw the lib dems into the mix on the right (I assume you do so to try to prove Farage wrong) it works is because the Lib Dems have overstated support and the Tories have understated support.
Original post by leinad2012
Taken from http://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015
Just because I'm not so lazy as to believe that the current Labour party is left wing because of what it was in the past, does not in any way mean that I'm wrong, as is shown on the graph above
Taken from http://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015
Just because I'm not so lazy as to believe that the current Labour party is left wing because of what it was in the past, does not in any way mean that I'm wrong, as is shown on the graph above
Is this a joke? Green aren't libertarian at all. UKIP aren't authoritarian. Lib Dem aren't right wing. SNP are the most authoritarian party on there. I can go on if you want me to.
Original post by Smug Life
Is this a joke? Green aren't libertarian at all. UKIP aren't authoritarian. Lib Dem aren't right wing. SNP are the most authoritarian party on there. I can go on if you want me to.
Could you justify your claims for all of these please
I honestly don't care about how left or right wing the audience are.
The issue I have is that people booed Farage's comment that immigration increases pressure on housing.
To do so is to deny basic mathematics, and if you are that thick then I will hold you in contempt regardless of your political affiliation.
People who boo sensible comments have no place at any sort of civilised debate.
I'm shocked that I'm feeling the need to praise ITV here, but they had the right idea - banning the audience from participation in the debate aside from those pre-selected to ask questions. Of course, even then some of the window-licking lefties in the audience were unable to help themselves, but at least the ban existed in theory.
The issue I have is that people booed Farage's comment that immigration increases pressure on housing.
To do so is to deny basic mathematics, and if you are that thick then I will hold you in contempt regardless of your political affiliation.
People who boo sensible comments have no place at any sort of civilised debate.
I'm shocked that I'm feeling the need to praise ITV here, but they had the right idea - banning the audience from participation in the debate aside from those pre-selected to ask questions. Of course, even then some of the window-licking lefties in the audience were unable to help themselves, but at least the ban existed in theory.
Farage to get his own 30 minute programme after BBC admit they were wrong: http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/571294/Nigel-Farage-Ukip-BBC-debate-fixed-Question-Time
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