Is the North of England a different country?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Where did you go?
Yorkshire areas
Original post by Iwouldliketoknow
Yorkshire areas
Yeah that figures, it's what I'm on about exactly. I don't think, e.g, Liverpool is conservative like that at all.
Original post by Iwouldliketoknow
Yorkshire areas
Which bits? The county is geographically the biggest in England and has a population roughly the same as Scotland. It's actually quite diverse within itself in many ways.
My local area has been Labour since it became a parliamentary constituency, back in the 1920's. This year saw our MP win re-election with an increased majority, despite having our first ever UKIP candidate who finished 3rd out of just 5 candidates. Surprising as there's usually only ever 3. (Labour, tory and lib dem)
Despite being right on the border of Yorkshire and Derbyshire, I actually live in Nottinghamshire in a small(ish) town. We have a Sheffield postal code, but are referred to as East Midlands. I wouldn't consider myself southern at all. The people here are very northern sounding, with northern ideals probably influenced heavily by nearby Sheffield and Doncaster. If you looked on a map however, you'd see we're very very central to the whole of England.
A point raised earlier about urban education, living in quite a rural area I don't feel as though it has benefited education wise. To me at least, people in cities seem to get much better opportunities and university education is quite uncommon, I would say a small proportion of people educated here progress any further than college/A levels. At my college there are 3 people studying chemistry at A2, this year we've had no less than 7 teachers as they are constantly leaving to take jobs in bigger city schools.
I have visited cities and I have to say I feel overwhelmed. I find it hard to imagine not being able to walk to the countryside, which for me is less than 20 minutes walk away. To me, life in a city never stops. I'm sure people who live in a city and then move to another city for example for university find it much easier to cope than I would moving from my small town to a city, whether they were from the north or the south and moving to the opposite. Even small cities are far bigger and busier than my area.
Despite being right on the border of Yorkshire and Derbyshire, I actually live in Nottinghamshire in a small(ish) town. We have a Sheffield postal code, but are referred to as East Midlands. I wouldn't consider myself southern at all. The people here are very northern sounding, with northern ideals probably influenced heavily by nearby Sheffield and Doncaster. If you looked on a map however, you'd see we're very very central to the whole of England.
A point raised earlier about urban education, living in quite a rural area I don't feel as though it has benefited education wise. To me at least, people in cities seem to get much better opportunities and university education is quite uncommon, I would say a small proportion of people educated here progress any further than college/A levels. At my college there are 3 people studying chemistry at A2, this year we've had no less than 7 teachers as they are constantly leaving to take jobs in bigger city schools.
I have visited cities and I have to say I feel overwhelmed. I find it hard to imagine not being able to walk to the countryside, which for me is less than 20 minutes walk away. To me, life in a city never stops. I'm sure people who live in a city and then move to another city for example for university find it much easier to cope than I would moving from my small town to a city, whether they were from the north or the south and moving to the opposite. Even small cities are far bigger and busier than my area.
I'm glad people a re interested in this thread, and the whole devolution issue, maybe Scotland sparked it and theUK will change for the better. But hopefully remain united.
As a Northerner with parents from down south, I always used to feel a distaste towards Manchester, but recently, having seen the city, one realises that it is as much of a part of the UK as any other city, and the North as a whole are definitely part of Britain.
Wow. Really? Manchester is becoming an economic and intellectual force on the world stage, as a city we have created graphene, fostered the thoughts of intellectuals such as Thomas de Quincy, Anthony Burgess, Marx and Engels, even Brian Cox at the moment.
Massive generalisation, completely untrue, and I'm not going to even honour that a response; the North needs some more appreciation from the South.
Original post by The two eds
No they are different in terms of intellectual terms. Time after time the northern sheep continue to vote Labour thinking their area will no longer be a **** hole more so than it already is.
Wow. Really? Manchester is becoming an economic and intellectual force on the world stage, as a city we have created graphene, fostered the thoughts of intellectuals such as Thomas de Quincy, Anthony Burgess, Marx and Engels, even Brian Cox at the moment.
Original post by The two eds
Do people up north not wonder why every Labour constituency has high crime, poor education standards and the areas feel and look like pure ****? Did ever consider Labour might thrive on this? Labour require people to be poorer for support so they will continue to destroy the North
Massive generalisation, completely untrue, and I'm not going to even honour that a response; the North needs some more appreciation from the South.
Original post by InaneRambler
My local area has been Labour since it became a parliamentary constituency, back in the 1920's. This year saw our MP win re-election with an increased majority, despite having our first ever UKIP candidate who finished 3rd out of just 5 candidates. Surprising as there's usually only ever 3. (Labour, tory and lib dem)
Despite being right on the border of Yorkshire and Derbyshire, I actually live in Nottinghamshire in a small(ish) town. We have a Sheffield postal code, but are referred to as East Midlands. I wouldn't consider myself southern at all. The people here are very northern sounding, with northern ideals probably influenced heavily by nearby Sheffield and Doncaster. If you looked on a map however, you'd see we're very very central to the whole of England.
A point raised earlier about urban education, living in quite a rural area I don't feel as though it has benefited education wise. To me at least, people in cities seem to get much better opportunities and university education is quite uncommon, I would say a small proportion of people educated here progress any further than college/A levels. At my college there are 3 people studying chemistry at A2, this year we've had no less than 7 teachers as they are constantly leaving to take jobs in bigger city schools.
I have visited cities and I have to say I feel overwhelmed. I find it hard to imagine not being able to walk to the countryside, which for me is less than 20 minutes walk away. To me, life in a city never stops. I'm sure people who live in a city and then move to another city for example for university find it much easier to cope than I would moving from my small town to a city, whether they were from the north or the south and moving to the opposite. Even small cities are far bigger and busier than my area.
Despite being right on the border of Yorkshire and Derbyshire, I actually live in Nottinghamshire in a small(ish) town. We have a Sheffield postal code, but are referred to as East Midlands. I wouldn't consider myself southern at all. The people here are very northern sounding, with northern ideals probably influenced heavily by nearby Sheffield and Doncaster. If you looked on a map however, you'd see we're very very central to the whole of England.
A point raised earlier about urban education, living in quite a rural area I don't feel as though it has benefited education wise. To me at least, people in cities seem to get much better opportunities and university education is quite uncommon, I would say a small proportion of people educated here progress any further than college/A levels. At my college there are 3 people studying chemistry at A2, this year we've had no less than 7 teachers as they are constantly leaving to take jobs in bigger city schools.
I have visited cities and I have to say I feel overwhelmed. I find it hard to imagine not being able to walk to the countryside, which for me is less than 20 minutes walk away. To me, life in a city never stops. I'm sure people who live in a city and then move to another city for example for university find it much easier to cope than I would moving from my small town to a city, whether they were from the north or the south and moving to the opposite. Even small cities are far bigger and busier than my area.
You've very strongly illustrated what I'm getting at.
I live on the Derbyshire side of the Yorks/Derbys boundary and I'm not quite sure what is considered north/south/midlands etc although we, like you, are technically East Midlands. I think you'll know what I'm saying when it's fair to say that many people from Notts/Derbys and even Lincolnshire are more stereotypically "northern" and left leaning politically than a lot of Yorkshire/Lancashire and upwards people.
To your point about urban vs rural I couldn't agree more. I think there is a much bigger cultural divide in that respect than north/south/east/west although as I've acknowledged before such geographical differences occur. My elder son went to an agricultural university where most of the students were of a similar mindset be they English, Welsh or Irish for the most part. In a good way these students he mixed with opened his eyes to many issues and lifestyles he wasn't really aware of (we're suburban town where he was brought up). Now his idea of hell would be living in a city and he's a rural boy at heart.
Contrast to his brother who is at a big inner city uni and now much prefers the convenience and lifestyle that goes with it but it took him a bit of adapting to as he is generally a quiet sort of person. The people he shares a house with and studies with are from a wide geographical sphere both nationally and internationally but are broadly urban at heart.
Original post by Folion
You've very strongly illustrated what I'm getting at.
I live on the Derbyshire side of the Yorks/Derbys boundary and I'm not quite sure what is considered north/south/midlands etc although we, like you, are technically East Midlands. I think you'll know what I'm saying when it's fair to say that many people from Notts/Derbys and even Lincolnshire are more stereotypically "northern" and left leaning politically than a lot of Yorkshire/Lancashire and upwards people.
To your point about urban vs rural I couldn't agree more. I think there is a much bigger cultural divide in that respect than north/south/east/west although as I've acknowledged before such geographical differences occur. My elder son went to an agricultural university where most of the students were of a similar mindset be they English, Welsh or Irish for the most part. In a good way these students he mixed with opened his eyes to many issues and lifestyles he wasn't really aware of (we're suburban town where he was brought up). Now his idea of hell would be living in a city and he's a rural boy at heart.
Contrast to his brother who is at a big inner city uni and now much prefers the convenience and lifestyle that goes with it but it took him a bit of adapting to as he is generally a quiet sort of person. The people he shares a house with and studies with are from a wide geographical sphere both nationally and internationally but are broadly urban at heart.
I live on the Derbyshire side of the Yorks/Derbys boundary and I'm not quite sure what is considered north/south/midlands etc although we, like you, are technically East Midlands. I think you'll know what I'm saying when it's fair to say that many people from Notts/Derbys and even Lincolnshire are more stereotypically "northern" and left leaning politically than a lot of Yorkshire/Lancashire and upwards people.
To your point about urban vs rural I couldn't agree more. I think there is a much bigger cultural divide in that respect than north/south/east/west although as I've acknowledged before such geographical differences occur. My elder son went to an agricultural university where most of the students were of a similar mindset be they English, Welsh or Irish for the most part. In a good way these students he mixed with opened his eyes to many issues and lifestyles he wasn't really aware of (we're suburban town where he was brought up). Now his idea of hell would be living in a city and he's a rural boy at heart.
Contrast to his brother who is at a big inner city uni and now much prefers the convenience and lifestyle that goes with it but it took him a bit of adapting to as he is generally a quiet sort of person. The people he shares a house with and studies with are from a wide geographical sphere both nationally and internationally but are broadly urban at heart.
It's strange for me as people in Sheffield, a 20 minute drive away are northern. Yet in my county we are not Northern, we are Midlands. I don't feel particularly northern when visiting say Newcastle, but to someone from the south my accent is northern.
I agree that people in the north of the counties do identify as more northern, though I feel those in the south of the counties wouldn't. I think they certainly feel midlands, rather than one or the other. Particularly in Nottingham itself.
Having applied to university next year I'm quite worried about this. I'm sure there's going to be plenty of people in the same situation as me, but it'll be completely different to what I'm used to. Just the sheer volume of people is a drastic change, though I'm sure it will certainly broaden my horizons. University is quite a rare opportunity, and maybe 10 years ago I don't think it would have been an option for me, the opportunity it offers is endless, it truly is. Many of the people I went to school with now work on farms or in an agricultural setting, with a few getting apprenticeships for companies like British Sugar, our local council or a few other notable employers but I think that's just the ideals of people in the area.
Original post by InaneRambler
Having applied to university next year I'm quite worried about this. I'm sure there's going to be plenty of people in the same situation as me, but it'll be completely different to what I'm used to. Just the sheer volume of people is a drastic change, though I'm sure it will certainly broaden my horizons. University is quite a rare opportunity, and maybe 10 years ago I don't think it would have been an option for me, the opportunity it offers is endless, it truly is. Many of the people I went to school with now work on farms or in an agricultural setting, with a few getting apprenticeships for companies like British Sugar, our local council or a few other notable employers but I think that's just the ideals of people in the area.
You're applying for 2016 entry then and putting in your applications for the next cycle?
Have you looked at various universities yet (online or real life) and what are your most important criteria? Does geographical location matter all that much to you, to some extent or not at all? Might be made easier if you're choosing to do a course offered at a lot of places but if it's an unusual area of study you might have to lump it.
Original post by Folion
You're applying for 2016 entry then and putting in your applications for the next cycle?
Have you looked at various universities yet (online or real life) and what are your most important criteria? Does geographical location matter all that much to you, to some extent or not at all? Might be made easier if you're choosing to do a course offered at a lot of places but if it's an unusual area of study you might have to lump it.
Have you looked at various universities yet (online or real life) and what are your most important criteria? Does geographical location matter all that much to you, to some extent or not at all? Might be made easier if you're choosing to do a course offered at a lot of places but if it's an unusual area of study you might have to lump it.
Sorry, must have worded it wrong. I've applied for 2015 entry. I've accepted an offer from the University of Leicester, and my insurance choice is Manchester. I need to get ABB in Maths, Physics and Chemistry.
I visited lots of universities, and when I say lots I mean around 20+. My favourite 5 were Leicester, Newcastle, Manchester, Nottingham and Sheffield. I considered Sheffield and Nottingham to be too close to home, so I didn't put them on my UCAS application, instead I went for Portsmouth, Leeds and Keele. Portsmouth was actually the only 'southern' university I considered, but I soon decided it was too far from home for me. The reason I visited mostly northern/midlands universities is most likely due to the fact they are closer to me, and I wouldn't have to stay overnight, just get up very early for the train!
The biggest factor for my decision was actually not the course, nor the university reputation but whether I could continue to play ice hockey. i.e proximity to an ice rink. That is the main geographical factor that I really considered (if you could even call it that).
The courses I applied for were Physics with Astrophysics, Petroleum Engineering and Construction Engineering Management, all with the same personal statement and I received all 5 offers conditionally. I think however, if I don't make my offer at Leicester I'd like to go through clearing at either Sheffield or Nottingham.
The North is very different. The people are much more affable and are fearlessly open and honest, which I think is a very endearing quality. It's less snobby up North for sure. The South has much better weather and seems less insular. Generally speaking, Southerners seem more aware and interested in what's going on in the world. Northerners can be incredibly dim. There's plenty of ugly neighbourhoods in the South but some areas of the North look especially dismal and forlorn. On the other hand, with the likes of the Yorkshire Dales and Lakeland, the North has the best countryside hands down.
Either side of the North/South divide there's pros and cons - I'm fond of both.
Either side of the North/South divide there's pros and cons - I'm fond of both.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Marco1
The North is very different. The people are much more affable and are fearlessly open and honest, which I think is a very endearing quality. It's less snobby up North for sure. The South has much better weather and seems less insular. Generally speaking, Southerners seem more aware and interested in what's going on in the world. Northerners can be incredibly dim. There's plenty of ugly neighbourhoods in the South but some areas of the North look especially dismal and forlorn. On the other hand, with the likes of the Yorkshire Dales and Lakeland, the North has the best countryside hands down.
Either side of the North/South divide there's pros and cons - I'm fond of both.
Either side of the North/South divide there's pros and cons - I'm fond of both.
my experience of most. although it may be the accents too? amongst the most dopiest ive ever heard, mainly Mancunians, no offense.
Original post by welcometoib
my experience of most. although it may be the accents too? amongst the most dopiest ive ever heard, mainly Mancunians, no offense.
Some of the Northern dialects are none too easy on the ear. I do like the Geordie accent though. The Scouse accent can vary in appeal, depending on the amount of airborne spittal after the consonant.
Original post by Marco1
Some of the Northern dialects are none too easy on the ear. I do like the Geordie accent though. The Scouse accent can vary in appeal, depending on the amount of airborne spittal after the consonant.
i just imagine one wearing a suit and trying to give a serious talk for instance, and i think... how am i meant to take this seriously? im not trying to be rude, honestly i just cant imagine taking the accent seriously, its horrible.
Original post by welcometoib
i just imagine one wearing a suit and trying to give a serious talk for instance, and i think... how am i meant to take this seriously? im not trying to be rude, honestly i just cant imagine taking the accent seriously, its horrible.
It might grow on you in time - hopefully not like a fungus.
Original post by Marco1
It might grow on you in time - hopefully not like a fungus.
oh i have no choice lol, my adorable gf of 2 and a half years is from manchester
. but i dont notice it with her anymore, unless she speaks really fast. with others though, its just so noticeable and it makes me mental! lol what should i do to "like" it more?The North is different, but to say it is another country is a bit of a stretch.
The industrial decline has definitely left a huge scar of regional identity. Once we were the powerhouse of the world, now we are overshadowed by London and the South East. I think the industrial identity is still huge on the North; we value hard work, deride slouchers, and to a certain extent have a sense of 'northern superiority'. Some places have been able to adapt quite well to the change in economic direction, but some people still hold out in the vain hopes that one day the factories, steelworks, foundries, mills and pits will somehow return. These places of work had become a part of the very identity of the North. The service sector which replaced it, made up of call centres and supermarkets doesn't foster the same sort of pride and identity that the heavy industries did. The bastions of our identity that remain are sports (mostly football and rugby league), the pub, our regional dialects, our culinary delights (blackpudding
), our perceived friendliness and down to earth attitude, which together form our collective cultural and social distinctiveness to the South.
Politically the urban areas are definitely more left wing in the North, but go 5 miles into the countryside and it goes back to a sort of traditional conservatism much like the Home Counties, but without that air of snobbery. Due to our industrial history there remains a sense of solidarity and community, and a strong sense of social justice, which means many still align themselves with the left. The reason why the left has remained strong is because the industrial decline is blamed, rightly or wrongly, on the right. But there is a general hostility towards the political establishment as government spending on things such as infrastructure and investment has lagged behind. The left is still under pressure though, especially from immigration which many people feel has been wrongly forced upon them, changing their communities without consultation. But go to post-industrial areas in the South and the fears and concerns are much the same, we just tend to sometimes have different answers to it.
The North definitely has similarities to post-industrial areas in Scotland and Wales. But it still has a distinctive Englishness to it. We drink tea, we moan, we talk about the weather, we passionately back our national teams even when they are hopeless. It is England, just different. Much like Devon is different to Kent.
George Orwell had an interesting take on 'northern superiority' in his book ''The Road to Wigan Pier''...
The industrial decline has definitely left a huge scar of regional identity. Once we were the powerhouse of the world, now we are overshadowed by London and the South East. I think the industrial identity is still huge on the North; we value hard work, deride slouchers, and to a certain extent have a sense of 'northern superiority'. Some places have been able to adapt quite well to the change in economic direction, but some people still hold out in the vain hopes that one day the factories, steelworks, foundries, mills and pits will somehow return. These places of work had become a part of the very identity of the North. The service sector which replaced it, made up of call centres and supermarkets doesn't foster the same sort of pride and identity that the heavy industries did. The bastions of our identity that remain are sports (mostly football and rugby league), the pub, our regional dialects, our culinary delights (blackpudding
), our perceived friendliness and down to earth attitude, which together form our collective cultural and social distinctiveness to the South. Politically the urban areas are definitely more left wing in the North, but go 5 miles into the countryside and it goes back to a sort of traditional conservatism much like the Home Counties, but without that air of snobbery. Due to our industrial history there remains a sense of solidarity and community, and a strong sense of social justice, which means many still align themselves with the left. The reason why the left has remained strong is because the industrial decline is blamed, rightly or wrongly, on the right. But there is a general hostility towards the political establishment as government spending on things such as infrastructure and investment has lagged behind. The left is still under pressure though, especially from immigration which many people feel has been wrongly forced upon them, changing their communities without consultation. But go to post-industrial areas in the South and the fears and concerns are much the same, we just tend to sometimes have different answers to it.
The North definitely has similarities to post-industrial areas in Scotland and Wales. But it still has a distinctive Englishness to it. We drink tea, we moan, we talk about the weather, we passionately back our national teams even when they are hopeless. It is England, just different. Much like Devon is different to Kent.
George Orwell had an interesting take on 'northern superiority' in his book ''The Road to Wigan Pier''...
There exists in England a curious cult of Northernness, sort of Northern snobbishness. A Yorkshireman in the South will always take care to let you know that he regards you as an inferior. If you ask him why, he will explain that it is only in the North that life is "real" life, that the industrial work done in the North is the only "real" work, that the North is inhabited by "real" people, the South merely by rentiers and their parasites.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by welcometoib
oh i have no choice lol, my adorable gf of 2 and a half years is from manchester . but i dont notice it with her anymore, unless she speaks really fast. with others though, its just so noticeable and it makes me mental! lol what should i do to "like" it more?
. but i dont notice it with her anymore, unless she speaks really fast. with others though, its just so noticeable and it makes me mental! lol what should i do to "like" it more?I don't mind the accent that much. I'm used to it. Not so long ago, I went to the centre of Manchester, down Princess Street and Deansgate and was quite impressed. I think it's a cool city with plenty of character. Some pretty hip looking young folk around too. The more well spoken Mancunians sound pretty good actually. Plenty of sexy ladies in Manchester.
Quick Reply
Latest
Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 4 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 4 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?Trending
Last reply 3 days ago
Why is the political left now censorious and authoritarian??Last reply 4 days ago
Is it true that British unis are prejudiced towards degrees from Scottish unis?Last reply 4 days ago
If the Russell Group was now a fair representation of what it still claims to beLast reply 2 weeks ago
TSR Goes Green: How important will the environment be in this year's election?Last reply 2 weeks ago
Research Rankings of universities if you add Research Quality & Intensity percentagesLast reply 1 month ago
Is University of Birmingham prestigious and respected well enough in UK ?
