EU referendum/Brexit 2016

Original post by EuanF

So no, you don't actually understand their arguments.

If Hitler himself came and told you E=mc^2, would you say he was wrong on the basis of him being Hitler?

No. An argument resides on the weight of the argument, not on the person putting it forwards.

No, but if Hitler gave me advice on how to remilitarise an economically crippled country then maybe I would listen.

You're taking things out of context and its just boring listening to you. We are talking specifically about economic and political experience.

These people are all experienced politicians, and ignoring the fact that such a wide range of left, right and centre politicians all support a Brexit, despite their differences - and simultaneously given that the only people who want out are people like Nigel Farage who didn't even win his own seat in South Thanet, Boris Johnson who did remarkably little as mayor, Iain Duncan Smith who resigned, and Michael Gove who got reappointed after his own party acknowledged his damage towards education, is summarising of the situation.

When you have such an extreme situation, its impossible to ignore it. The most successful politicians and businessmen all agree that leaving the EU is too big of a risk.

Reply 382

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

No, but if Hitler gave me advice on how to remilitarise an economically crippled country then maybe I would listen.

You're taking things out of context and its just boring listening to you. We are talking specifically about economic and political experience.

These people are all experienced politicians, and ignoring the fact that such a wide range of left, right and centre politicians all support a Brexit, despite their differences - and simultaneously given that the only people who want out are people like Nigel Farage who didn't even win his own seat in South Thanet, Boris Johnson who did remarkably little as mayor, Iain Duncan Smith who resigned, and Michael Gove who got reappointed after his own party acknowledged his damage towards education, is summarising of the situation.

When you have such an extreme situation, its impossible to ignore it. The most successful politicians and businessmen all agree that leaving the EU is too big of a risk.

You haven't actually read or seen their arguments though. If you had, you'd be able to tell me what their arguments were.

Reply 383

Original post by EuanF

You haven't actually read or seen their arguments though. If you had, you'd be able to tell me what their arguments were.

You're kidding right? Obviously I've seen their arguments, but what purpose does it serve to regurgitate what you can simply find on the internet.

But since you're just going to be an idiot and post massive pictures thinking you can mutilate what people in history have said and use it against me, we're done here

Reply 384

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

You're kidding right? Obviously I've seen their arguments, but what purpose does it serve to regurgitate what you can simply find on the internet.

But since you're just going to be an idiot and post massive pictures thinking you can mutilate what people in history have said and use it against me, we're done here

Alright, so having claimed to know what their arguments were, would you like to explain them to me?

Or is it the truth, in fact, that you don't know their arguments, nor do you understand why you're voting remain?

Also, ad hominem (you're really racking up the fallacies here)

Reply 385

Original post by EuanF

Alright, so having claimed to know what their arguments were, would you like to explain them to me?

Or is it the truth, in fact, that you don't know their arguments, nor do you understand why you're voting remain?

Also, ad hominem (you're really racking up the fallacies here)

Are you soft in the head? I said we're done. I'm voting to remain, and you can whine and cry about how "you don't know their arguments" but if you look back on this very thread you will settle any stupid little quarrels you have about my knowledge of the EU. Nothing you can say will convince me, and I am wasting my time typing to you, given that you spam a massive picture with a quote which you don't even interpret correctly when confronted with reason - trying to hide behind other peoples' words because you know you're wrong.

I don't expect a response

Reply 386

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

Are you soft in the head? I said we're done. I'm voting to remain, and you can whine and cry about how "you don't know their arguments" but if you look back on this very thread you will settle any stupid little quarrels you have about my knowledge of the EU. Nothing you can say will convince me, and I am wasting my time typing to you, given that you spam a massive picture with a quote which you don't even interpret correctly when confronted with reason - trying to hide behind other peoples' words because you know you're wrong.

I don't expect a response

Why are you being so bigoted?

Reply 387

Original post by EuanF

Why are you being so bigoted?

Says you, the one telling me that I have never read a remain-supporter's argument, despite the fact that you have no clue who I am

"You haven't actually read or seen their arguments though. If you had, you'd be able to tell me what their arguments were."

Reply 388

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

Says you, the one telling me that I have never read a remain-supporter's argument, despite the fact that you have no clue who I am

"You haven't actually read or seen their arguments though. If you had, you'd be able to tell me what their arguments were."

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

I'm voting to remain... Nothing you can say will convince me

bigotry

noun, plural bigotries.

1.stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

Reply 389

Original post by EuanF

bigotry

noun, plural bigotries.

1.stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

I think the exact same could be applied to yourself

as I said, we're done

I should never have replied to you in the first place, had I known that you were just another xenophobic troll

Reply 390

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

I think the exact same could be applied to yourself

as I said, we're done

I should never have replied to you in the first place, had I known that you were just another xenophobic troll

Right, stop throwing around the random ad hominem and stand up to defend your position. You're an embarrassment on the Remain campaign.

Without resorting to the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority, what reasons can you give me to remain in the EU?

Reply 391

Original post by EuanF

Right, stop throwing around the random ad hominem and stand up to defend your position. You're an embarrassment on the Remain campaign.

Without resorting to the logical fallacy of an appeal to authority, what reasons can you give me to remain in the EU?

The EU benefits us economically, millions of jobs in the UK are linked directly our trade with the EU. These jobs tend to be industrial jobs linked to exports from the EU. We also as a result of being a member of the EU, are not charged for movement of goods, services and workers. If we leave the EU, we will still do trade with them, but at an increased price. So we pay extra for the same trade deal as before. So we gain nothing in terms of trade and economics. You could argue that we are 'free to make our own trade deals', but those take a long time to set-up, and are generally not favourable to us. We are far better off doing trade with the world via the European Union, which organises trade deals for us and to which we send almost half of our exports. We would have to negotiate trade deals on our own, which is lesser when the economic capacity of our country alone is about 3/16 x what the EU is worth. A much less convincing case for countries who we might want to trade with.

The EU subsidises a large amount of money to our farming and fishing industry, roughly half of the income and 73% of UK farming/fishing exports go to the EU. If we leave the EU, our entire agricultural industry will stall, farmers and fishermen will lose jobs, and we will see these industries go out of business.

And if we leave the EU, we essentially have to comply by the EU regulations with no control over them whatsoever.

I'm not going to waste any more time typing out the arguments since a simple google search would satisfy your expansive ego, but we are economically worse outside of the EU and that is a fact which is supported by dozens of reputable politicians, businessmen, economists and banks. Other areas I would expand upon include: the EU gives us more international leverage on the world stage, the EU makes us safer and encourages international cooperation with regard to counterterrorism, the EU gives us freedom to move and live within most European countries, the EU has massively improved the living standards across Europe, the EU helps all countries work together to prevent climate change, and the list goes on.

the only brexit arguments I ever see are hollow, stupid things like "we get our democracy back", or "we get more control" or "we are safer" - hollow, stupid things backed up by no one and simply 'could-bes' and theorising. No wonder only idiotic politicians are backing a Brexit like Farage, Gove, etc... and theres this absolute BS about how "we could spend that money on the NHS" - well all three tory rebels wanted to cut the NHS in the past, I don't trust them to do anything with the money other than lob it onto the trident pile or something.

Reply 392

Jammy Duel

21

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

History has shown that when we ignore the world around us, it turns on us and always bites back. Isolationism is never the answer.

Good thing it's only the remainers that want that then

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 393

Original post by Jammy Duel

Good thing it's only the remainers that want that then

Posted from TSR Mobile

picture me laughing my ass off, would you?

Reply 394

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

picture me laughing my ass off, would you?

Which is more isolationist? Sticking to fortress Europe, or trading with the rest of the world?

Reply 395

Original post by EuanF

Which is more isolationist? Sticking to fortress Europe, or trading with the rest of the world?

Since you ignored my entire post which I made for you, you're just a troll, welcome to my block list

Reply 396

Original post by nexttimeigetvpn

Since you ignored my entire post which I made for you, you're just a troll, welcome to my block list

What a mature level of discussion :biggrin:

Reply 397

Original post by vall29

Going to be on the debate on ITV on Thursday with Boris Johnson, Gisela Stuart, Amber Rudd, Nicola Sturgeon, are there any questions you desperately wish to ask? I could help

Ask Sturgeon if she sees the parallels between the reason she wants Scottish independence from the UK and the reason we want British independence from the EU

Reply 398

Midlander

19

Original post by EuanF

Ask Sturgeon if she sees the parallels between the reason she wants Scottish independence from the UK and the reason we want British independence from the EU

You won't get an answer just more hypocrisy.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 399