The Somali Society

Shuky

How about if that 1 islamic state would cause many deaths and hardship, can i still call my self Allah fearing. You have to understand that even if Somaliland joins somalia they will not stop their they will again go in search for a 'Greater Somalia' causing more war and strife upon Somalis and their neighbours.

I'm not saying call for a Greater Somalia, I'm saying keep Somalia the way it is currently internationally recognized.
An proper Islamic state would do know such thing. What are you on about?

What makes you think that if they become one country they will not 'kiss western governments behinds'. A greater Somalia has been dead now for the best part of 17 years therefore i do not think the Somalilanders will accept unit, 96% of the people voted to become an independent state so what makes you think they are going to give up the independence they hold so dear.

96% of the people that voted...how many people of the countries population actually voted? And do you have proof to support that statement?

What makes you think the scars of having their parents, cousins borthers and sisters killed by Siad Barree and hsi henchmen many of whom are now runnin Somalia lead them again, as soon as there is an election fighting will begin. In m opinion they have already grwon far apart, from the colonial rule to the 17 years of independence now.

And the south weren't affect by Siad Barre? To use that as an excuse to separate is not good enough.

Peace is my solution, and i dont think any Allah(SWT) fearing person would issue anything that would cause more death and suffering amongs innocent people.

My biggest problem with everything is simple; give me on good reason why in this day and age the South and North can't reconcile? One good reason. History is just that, history. It affected both sides and both sides equally played a part in the current state of Somalia.

You say they've grown far apart...how? Culture wise? Religion wise? Language wise? What has made the so different from one another that they can't see beyond it?
It will boil down to the same thing, tribal rivalry; something that in an Islamic state would be eradicated.
It honestly saddens me that a country that's practically all Muslim allows the stupidest of things such as tribes to get them to forget that they're Muslims first and foremost and that each and everyone of them will be questioned on how they treated their fellow brethren. Using tribal differences will shockingly enough not be a good excuse.

Reply 62

Shuky

mizfissy815

I'm not saying call for a Greater Somalia, I'm saying keep Somalia the way it is currently internationally recognized.
An proper Islamic state would do know such thing. What are you on about?

But you are calling for one united muslim country which in effect means a greater somalia including all the somali territories as they are mostly muslims as well. Or are you selectively choosing who goes in that islamic state, do you want it to be a Somali islamic state with all somali teritories that are mainly occupied by muslims or will you leave places like Djibouti out and only bring somalialnd and somalia together.

mizfissy815

96% of the people that voted...how many people of the countries population actually voted? And do you have proof to support that statement?

A simple Google search will bring out a mass of evidence. I am not sure how much of the population voted because there is not even atm a real count of how many people are in Somaliland. However, that is even changing now with their voter registration scheme.

mizfissy815

And the south weren't affect by Siad Barre? To use that as an excuse to separate is not good enough.

They were not effected as much. Did Mugdisho get bombed to the ground, no but Somalialnds major cities did. So i think it can be said they had been effected more by the tribal cleansing operated by siad barre and his henchment.

mizfissy815

My biggest problem with everything is simple; give me on good reason why in this day and age the South and North can't reconcile? One good reason. History is just that, history. It affected both sides and both sides equally played a part in the current state of Somalia.

A wounded heart cannot be healed if it has been ripped out. Look at Kosovo and serbia, why can they not be united? It has been to many years of heartache.

mizfissy815

You say they've grown far apart...how? Culture wise? Religion wise? Language wise? What has made the so different from one another that they can't see beyond it?

They have been growing apart since their colonisations. for example when they united the British way of doing things was very incompatible with the way that the southerners had learnt to do it from the italians. The northerners had in my opinion kept their traditional ways of dealing with issues as the british had been running it from and arms length therefore they where running themselves so now they in effect sort out issues similar to the tradional ways of resolving it 'under treas'.

mizfissy815

It will boil down to the same thing, tribal rivalry; something that in an Islamic state would be eradicated.
It honestly saddens me that a country that's practically all Muslim allows the stupidest of things such as tribes to get them to forget that they're Muslims first and foremost and that each and everyone of them will be questioned on how they treated their fellow brethren. Using tribal differences will shockingly enough not be a good excuse.

Tribal rivalry can only be stopped gradually.I understand Islam can bring down the seperation bariers such as tribal rivalries however, you cannot impose it on them if the do not want to be rn by Sharia law according to Islam.

It is not just somalia that suffers from he tribal rivalries many other muslim countries are the same, others such as yemen have city rivialries which even stupider.

Reply 63

mizfissy815

It will boil down to the same thing, tribal rivalry; something that in an Islamic state would be eradicated.
It honestly saddens me that a country that's practically all Muslim allows the stupidest of things such as tribes to get them to forget that they're Muslims first and foremost and that each and everyone of them will be questioned on how they treated their fellow brethren. Using tribal differences will shockingly enough not be a good excuse.

I very much doubt. Algeria is Islamic but is riddled with tribal problems. Being an Islamic state doesn't make you immune to cultural differences.

Reply 64

e-lover

I very much doubt. Algeria is Islamic but is riddled with tribal problems. Being an Islamic state doesn't make you immune to cultural differences.

A proper Islamic state as per the Quran and Sunnah would not be.

Reply 65

mizfissy815

A proper Islamic state as per the Quran and Sunnah would not be.

A proper Islamic state is a fictitious affair.

Reply 66

Shuky

But you are calling for one united muslim country which in effect means a greater somalia including all the somali territories as they are mostly muslims as well. Or are you selectively choosing who goes in that islamic state, do you want it to be a Somali islamic state with all somali teritories that are mainly occupied by muslims or will you leave places like Djibouti out and only bring somalialnd and somalia together.

Plz remember that Somaliland is still legally part of Somalia whilst Djibouti and Ogaden are not.
I'm saying leave Somalia as it is currently recognized (ie with Somaliland as part of it).

A simple Google search will bring out a mass of evidence. I am not sure how much of the population voted because there is not even atm a real count of how many people are in Somaliland. However, that is even changing now with their voter registration scheme

.

Exactly. Even if you're correct and it's 96% of the turnout voted for it, that still doesn't mean the majority of the country want it.

They were not effected as much. Did Mugdisho get bombed to the ground, no but Somalialnds major cities did. So i think it can be said they had been effected more by the tribal cleansing operated by siad barre and his henchment.

Somaliland was only established after Siad Barre was ousted.
But yes, when he gained power he was brutal with the North.
You can't call it tribal cleansing now. I'm guessing most of the North is Isaaq right? Wasn't the Siad Barre's PM an Isaaqi as well? He didn't like the opposition and that was the only reason he did what he did. Not because of clan rubbish.

A wounded heart cannot be healed if it has been ripped out. Look at Kosovo and serbia, why can they not be united? It has been to many years of heartache.

Since when have most Somalis considered themselves 'Secular' Muslims?
The difference between the two is the fact as Muslims, there are things we need to learn to overcome; one of which is living in the past.

They have been growing apart since their colonisations. for example when they united the British way of doing things was very incompatible with the way that the southerners had learnt to do it from the italians. The northerners had in my opinion kept their traditional ways of dealing with issues as the british had been running it from and arms length therefore they where running themselves so now they in effect sort out issues similar to the tradional ways of resolving it 'under treas'.

And?
That's hardly a reason.

Tribal rivalry can only be stopped gradually.I understand Islam can bring down the seperation bariers such as tribal rivalries however, you cannot impose it on them if the do not want to be rn by Sharia law according to Islam.

It is not just somalia that suffers from he tribal rivalries many other muslim countries are the same, others such as yemen have city rivialries which even stupider.
And that's where we part.

According to Islam you can't impose Shariaa law in a Muslim state? Since freakin' when?

I like to believe that most Somalis would more than welcome Shari'aa law as it will not only sort out the state of Somalia now, but that in the end of the day it's there is nothing better for them.

Somalis I believe are majority Muslim, if not all and such none of them would deny Shariaa law or say no to it.

Why you ask? Because a Muslim who doesn't want Shariaa law established (where it can be -ie a Muslim state) is a Muslim who doesn't want to live by Allah(swt) laws. They are people who don't think that God's law is good enough or that civil/secular law is somehow better. Such a person, is a kaafir.

Reply 67

e-lover

A proper Islamic state is a fictitious affair.

In your head perhaps.

Reply 68

mizfissy815

In your head perhaps.

name me one proper Islamic state.

Reply 69

e-lover

name me one proper Islamic state.

There aren't any...some are too busy with the worlds rubbish affairs for certain rulers to give a crap.

But if you go back in time a little I'm sure you'll find one.
And thats it...just one state. Not a bunch of nationalistic pick and mix 'islamic' countries.

The one state is not going to change with Somalia that's for sure. But at the very least Somalia can try to establish itself as a proper Islamic state as much as it can (caliphate bit is going to have to be a collaborated process).

Reply 70

mizfissy815

There aren't any...to busy with the worlds rubbish affairs for certain rulers to give a crap.

But if you go back in time a little I'm sure you'll find one.
And thats it...just one state. Not a bunch of nationalistic pick and mix 'islamic' countries.

So my point stands? It is a fictious affair. Even you doubt finding one.

Reply 71

e-lover

So my point stands? It is a fictious affair. Even you doubt finding one.

Fictitious - doesn't exist and never have.

An Islamic state existed for centuries before people started becoming a little too indulgent with life.

Reply 72

mizfissy815

Fictitious - doesn't exist and never have.

An Islamic state existed for centuries before people started becoming a little too indulgent with life.

Please don't tell me your one of these 'life is a test, Zomg! Gotta get an A**!!!!' in it!!, oh wait, I'm having too much fun! eeekkk! hell for me lolizzzz!!' people?

Reply 73

e-lover

Please don't tell me your one of these 'life is a test, Zomg! Gotta get an A**!!!!' in it!!, oh wait, I'm having too much fun! eeekkk! hell for me lolizzzz!!' people?

What the heck are you on about?

The hardships we face in our are tests, believe it or not.

Reply 74

mizfissy815

The hardships we face in our are tests, believe it or not.

Do you think Somalia would benefit from a fully functioning democracy or an Islamic state, and why?

Reply 75

Islamic state hands down...

And can't you guess?

Reply 76

mizfissy815

Islamic state hands down...

And can't you guess?

So if you enjoy the fruits of an Islamic state, with all respect, why not move there (or something as close to an Islamic state) now? Doesn't the democratic systems of this country go against your beliefs?

Reply 77