False Accusations? Your opinion....
I want to know if anyone has been a victim of false accusation for anything they did and how it damaged them. I also want to know what impact it had on you and what law or rules you would change to prevent false accusations from taking place.
1) Do you think that western countries are doing less in terms preventing false accusations from taking place?
2) Do you agree with female privilege, that laws and society protects and listens to them too much by giving them more rights despite being proven guilty?
3) Should false accusers get the same length of sentence of the crime that they are accusing an individual of? for example if a rape sentence is 10 years, then false accusers should serve 10 years sentence?
4) Should there be a False accusers register just like sex offenders register for the protection of others?
For those individuals who have falsely accused others, what motivated you to do that. Were you peer pressured, forced, jealous? Don’t worry you can post anonymously. Did you consider how false accusation can damage an individual’s career, reputation, relationships?.
The reason I am asking this is because I have been a victim of false accusation and it really destroyed and damaged me. I was suspended from work, my mental health went through the roof and what was hurtful, and upsetting was HR actually took their side by saying “oh there is no case to answer”, “nothing was found and was all a lie”. So when I wanted to make a counter grievance, HR stated there is no need because it will make this whole investigation longer and you will be unable to work properly. I have two beautiful nieces and I love them to bits, I would never even dare to even do things to a woman. Two of my friends were falsely accused of rape and nothing happened to the woman. My younger brother is in high school and once he was walking home from school and a fight broke out between two girls and he was watching from far away. When he reached home a police officer came and questioned him regarding the incident and said “PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THESE TWO GIRLS OTHERWISE NEXT TIME WE WILL HAVE TO ARREST YOU”. I mean WTF, he wasn`t even involved so imagine if he actually stopped the fight and I am assuming nothing happened to the girls. So when my mother rang the school the headteacher was even baffled, they said “why did they even question him in the first place?.
1) Do you think that western countries are doing less in terms preventing false accusations from taking place?
2) Do you agree with female privilege, that laws and society protects and listens to them too much by giving them more rights despite being proven guilty?
3) Should false accusers get the same length of sentence of the crime that they are accusing an individual of? for example if a rape sentence is 10 years, then false accusers should serve 10 years sentence?
4) Should there be a False accusers register just like sex offenders register for the protection of others?
For those individuals who have falsely accused others, what motivated you to do that. Were you peer pressured, forced, jealous? Don’t worry you can post anonymously. Did you consider how false accusation can damage an individual’s career, reputation, relationships?.
The reason I am asking this is because I have been a victim of false accusation and it really destroyed and damaged me. I was suspended from work, my mental health went through the roof and what was hurtful, and upsetting was HR actually took their side by saying “oh there is no case to answer”, “nothing was found and was all a lie”. So when I wanted to make a counter grievance, HR stated there is no need because it will make this whole investigation longer and you will be unable to work properly. I have two beautiful nieces and I love them to bits, I would never even dare to even do things to a woman. Two of my friends were falsely accused of rape and nothing happened to the woman. My younger brother is in high school and once he was walking home from school and a fight broke out between two girls and he was watching from far away. When he reached home a police officer came and questioned him regarding the incident and said “PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THESE TWO GIRLS OTHERWISE NEXT TIME WE WILL HAVE TO ARREST YOU”. I mean WTF, he wasn`t even involved so imagine if he actually stopped the fight and I am assuming nothing happened to the girls. So when my mother rang the school the headteacher was even baffled, they said “why did they even question him in the first place?.
False accusation isn't a distinct offence because it's already covered by things like perverting the court of justice, wasting police time, etc. There was a prominent conviction last year of a woman for false rape accusations, and she did indeed get a sentence of eight and a half years, which is comparable to that of a convicted rapist: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/14/eleanor-williams-jailed-lying-rapes-trafficking
And then of course there's also the civil suit route - UK law is much more favourable to those suing for defamation than most other countries.
And then of course there's also the civil suit route - UK law is much more favourable to those suing for defamation than most other countries.
(edited 2 months ago)
never been suspected of a crime or misconduct myself, but i do know some very serious liars including two who faked cancer so i know lying happens.
just so we're on the same page here: false accusations means deliberately lying.
if the accuser genuinely believes xyz happened, it is not false accusations. also not having enough evidence is not false accusations and does not mean the accuser is ‘proven wrong’ if they lose their case; it just means they had a weak argument.
1) if you meant should be doing more, i would say realistically we can't stop people lying to authorities; it's their choice. children lie. second sin of all time was lying; see genesis.
we discourage people from making false accusations tho by making civil suits and criminal prosecutions - virtually impossible. google the cost of hiring a solicitor for a lawsuit - it's outrageous. farrrr too expensive for an average person to make a good claim, let alone for a frivilous one. and no, legal aid is not 'free' or easy to get and will not cover sally if she wants to sue joey for grabbing her ass during shift at poundland.
on the criminal side, it's the standard of proof that protects the accused, which is extremely high - beyond reasonable doubt means jury must be 99% certain, which many people underestimate. standard so high that consequently very few criminal investigations result in charges; fact it's the default they won't (5.7% of all crimes reported to the police lead to charges 2022-23).
charge rates for crimes typically associated with 'women lying':
rape reports - about 1-3%
stalking and harassment offences - 3.4%
domestically abuse - 6.7%
that's just charges, not convictions. investigation to charge takes like 6+ months and if you want conviction in court takes another 1-2 years after charges. you'd have to be a proper nutter masochist if you're willing to go through all that just for ***** and giggles, especially if you know how rare it is to secure a conviction. only a nutter would look at that and think 'wow i stand a really good chance here, i should make up a story and call the police!'.
i have sources for further reading. happy to post
2) i don't know what you're asking here to be honest.
3) perverting the course of justice means prison sentence up to term of life improvement. is life imprisonment likely? no ofc not, but neither is rape.
it’s not possible to be tit for tat tho cuz sentencing is dependent upon the defendant specifically after their own personal aggravating/mitigating factors are taken into account.
4) what purpose would that serve?
you know that there is no special centrally held register of sex offenders in England and Wales, right? the name 'the sex offender register' is merely used to describe a system whereby offenders register their details with the police, so police can check on em make sure they're not perving on anyone. there is no general public access to it tho, so can't look up your employee or tinder date on it. want to reduce the risk of being falsely accused of rape, save sex for long-term partner or ask your date for a dbs check.
just so we're on the same page here: false accusations means deliberately lying.
if the accuser genuinely believes xyz happened, it is not false accusations. also not having enough evidence is not false accusations and does not mean the accuser is ‘proven wrong’ if they lose their case; it just means they had a weak argument.
1) if you meant should be doing more, i would say realistically we can't stop people lying to authorities; it's their choice. children lie. second sin of all time was lying; see genesis.
we discourage people from making false accusations tho by making civil suits and criminal prosecutions - virtually impossible. google the cost of hiring a solicitor for a lawsuit - it's outrageous. farrrr too expensive for an average person to make a good claim, let alone for a frivilous one. and no, legal aid is not 'free' or easy to get and will not cover sally if she wants to sue joey for grabbing her ass during shift at poundland.
on the criminal side, it's the standard of proof that protects the accused, which is extremely high - beyond reasonable doubt means jury must be 99% certain, which many people underestimate. standard so high that consequently very few criminal investigations result in charges; fact it's the default they won't (5.7% of all crimes reported to the police lead to charges 2022-23).
charge rates for crimes typically associated with 'women lying':
rape reports - about 1-3%
stalking and harassment offences - 3.4%
domestically abuse - 6.7%
that's just charges, not convictions. investigation to charge takes like 6+ months and if you want conviction in court takes another 1-2 years after charges. you'd have to be a proper nutter masochist if you're willing to go through all that just for ***** and giggles, especially if you know how rare it is to secure a conviction. only a nutter would look at that and think 'wow i stand a really good chance here, i should make up a story and call the police!'.
i have sources for further reading. happy to post
2) i don't know what you're asking here to be honest.
3) perverting the course of justice means prison sentence up to term of life improvement. is life imprisonment likely? no ofc not, but neither is rape.
it’s not possible to be tit for tat tho cuz sentencing is dependent upon the defendant specifically after their own personal aggravating/mitigating factors are taken into account.
4) what purpose would that serve?
you know that there is no special centrally held register of sex offenders in England and Wales, right? the name 'the sex offender register' is merely used to describe a system whereby offenders register their details with the police, so police can check on em make sure they're not perving on anyone. there is no general public access to it tho, so can't look up your employee or tinder date on it. want to reduce the risk of being falsely accused of rape, save sex for long-term partner or ask your date for a dbs check.
Original post by Genesiss
never been suspected of a crime or misconduct myself, but i do know some very serious liars including two who faked cancer so i know lying happens.
just so we're on the same page here: false accusations means deliberately lying.
if the accuser genuinely believes xyz happened, it is not false accusations. also not having enough evidence is not false accusations and does not mean the accuser is ‘proven wrong’ if they lose their case; it just means they had a weak argument.
1) if you meant should be doing more, i would say realistically we can't stop people lying to authorities; it's their choice. children lie. second sin of all time was lying; see genesis.
we discourage people from making false accusations tho by making civil suits and criminal prosecutions - virtually impossible. google the cost of hiring a solicitor for a lawsuit - it's outrageous. farrrr too expensive for an average person to make a good claim, let alone for a frivilous one. and no, legal aid is not 'free' or easy to get and will not cover sally if she wants to sue joey for grabbing her ass during shift at poundland.
on the criminal side, it's the standard of proof that protects the accused, which is extremely high - beyond reasonable doubt means jury must be 99% certain, which many people underestimate. standard so high that consequently very few criminal investigations result in charges; fact it's the default they won't (5.7% of all crimes reported to the police lead to charges 2022-23).
charge rates for crimes typically associated with 'women lying':
rape reports - about 1-3%
stalking and harassment offences - 3.4%
domestically abuse - 6.7%
that's just charges, not convictions. investigation to charge takes like 6+ months and if you want conviction in court takes another 1-2 years after charges. you'd have to be a proper nutter masochist if you're willing to go through all that just for ***** and giggles, especially if you know how rare it is to secure a conviction. only a nutter would look at that and think 'wow i stand a really good chance here, i should make up a story and call the police!'.
i have sources for further reading. happy to post
2) i don't know what you're asking here to be honest.
3) perverting the course of justice means prison sentence up to term of life improvement. is life imprisonment likely? no ofc not, but neither is rape.
it’s not possible to be tit for tat tho cuz sentencing is dependent upon the defendant specifically after their own personal aggravating/mitigating factors are taken into account.
4) what purpose would that serve?
you know that there is no special centrally held register of sex offenders in England and Wales, right? the name 'the sex offender register' is merely used to describe a system whereby offenders register their details with the police, so police can check on em make sure they're not perving on anyone. there is no general public access to it tho, so can't look up your employee or tinder date on it. want to reduce the risk of being falsely accused of rape, save sex for long-term partner or ask your date for a dbs check.
just so we're on the same page here: false accusations means deliberately lying.
if the accuser genuinely believes xyz happened, it is not false accusations. also not having enough evidence is not false accusations and does not mean the accuser is ‘proven wrong’ if they lose their case; it just means they had a weak argument.
1) if you meant should be doing more, i would say realistically we can't stop people lying to authorities; it's their choice. children lie. second sin of all time was lying; see genesis.
we discourage people from making false accusations tho by making civil suits and criminal prosecutions - virtually impossible. google the cost of hiring a solicitor for a lawsuit - it's outrageous. farrrr too expensive for an average person to make a good claim, let alone for a frivilous one. and no, legal aid is not 'free' or easy to get and will not cover sally if she wants to sue joey for grabbing her ass during shift at poundland.
on the criminal side, it's the standard of proof that protects the accused, which is extremely high - beyond reasonable doubt means jury must be 99% certain, which many people underestimate. standard so high that consequently very few criminal investigations result in charges; fact it's the default they won't (5.7% of all crimes reported to the police lead to charges 2022-23).
charge rates for crimes typically associated with 'women lying':
rape reports - about 1-3%
stalking and harassment offences - 3.4%
domestically abuse - 6.7%
that's just charges, not convictions. investigation to charge takes like 6+ months and if you want conviction in court takes another 1-2 years after charges. you'd have to be a proper nutter masochist if you're willing to go through all that just for ***** and giggles, especially if you know how rare it is to secure a conviction. only a nutter would look at that and think 'wow i stand a really good chance here, i should make up a story and call the police!'.
i have sources for further reading. happy to post
2) i don't know what you're asking here to be honest.
3) perverting the course of justice means prison sentence up to term of life improvement. is life imprisonment likely? no ofc not, but neither is rape.
it’s not possible to be tit for tat tho cuz sentencing is dependent upon the defendant specifically after their own personal aggravating/mitigating factors are taken into account.
4) what purpose would that serve?
you know that there is no special centrally held register of sex offenders in England and Wales, right? the name 'the sex offender register' is merely used to describe a system whereby offenders register their details with the police, so police can check on em make sure they're not perving on anyone. there is no general public access to it tho, so can't look up your employee or tinder date on it. want to reduce the risk of being falsely accused of rape, save sex for long-term partner or ask your date for a dbs check.
I appreciate what you are saying however there is no difference between false accusations and lying. I am not saying women don`t get harassed or assaulted, what I am saying is that as a man a person is guilty until proven innocent. In fact, they are guilty even after being proven innocent. Did you hear about the lady who falsely accused a few men of rape, and they went to court, she made all of it up and still one of the guys house got his windows broken and was labelled. I appreciate you explaining the legal side of courts however this is not what I am asking for. I wanted to know why women can get away with their crimes. Nowadays any signs of attraction can be deemed harassment. I mean why are the western countries not allowing men to be men. I get that there are men who are abusers, but it is highly unfair to label every man the same and after the "Me too movement" it is even more difficult as man to function properly.
I suspect he vast majority of western men get along just fine being men without being accused of harassment.
The whole “PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THESE TWO GIRLS OTHERWISE NEXT TIME WE WILL HAVE TO ARREST YOU” thing sounds either like fiction or had details omitted tbh, it's just so preposterously unlikely.
The whole “PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THESE TWO GIRLS OTHERWISE NEXT TIME WE WILL HAVE TO ARREST YOU” thing sounds either like fiction or had details omitted tbh, it's just so preposterously unlikely.
Original post by StriderHort
I suspect he vast majority of western men get along just fine being men without being accused of harassment.
The whole “PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THESE TWO GIRLS OTHERWISE NEXT TIME WE WILL HAVE TO ARREST YOU” thing sounds either like fiction or had details omitted tbh, it's just so preposterously unlikely.
The whole “PLEASE STAY AWAY FROM THESE TWO GIRLS OTHERWISE NEXT TIME WE WILL HAVE TO ARREST YOU” thing sounds either like fiction or had details omitted tbh, it's just so preposterously unlikely.
Just because nothing has happened to you doesn`t mean it doesn`t exist. Maybe you don`t have anything of value therefore you don`t stand out hence why nothing happens to you. How can you say the conversation which took place between the police officer and my brother never happened. Where you there? no so be quiet. I respect your suspicions but don`t say something never happened when you were not there.
Original post by U33B
Just because nothing has happened to you doesn`t mean it doesn`t exist. Maybe you don`t have anything of value therefore you don`t stand out hence why nothing happens to you. How can you say the conversation which took place between the police officer and my brother never happened. Where you there? no so be quiet. I respect your suspicions but don`t say something never happened when you were not there.
I didn't say it didn't happen, I said it sounded like preposterously unlikely fiction so please be precise, indeed trying to misportray my post in such a way does nothing to dispel the idea of you being an unreliable narrator.
Original post by U33B
I appreciate what you are saying however there is no difference between false accusations and lying. I am not saying women don`t get harassed or assaulted, what I am saying is that as a man a person is guilty until proven innocent. In fact, they are guilty even after being proven innocent. Did you hear about the lady who falsely accused a few men of rape, and they went to court, she made all of it up and still one of the guys house got his windows broken and was labelled. I appreciate you explaining the legal side of courts however this is not what I am asking for. I wanted to know why women can get away with their crimes. Nowadays any signs of attraction can be deemed harassment. I mean why are the western countries not allowing men to be men. I get that there are men who are abusers, but it is highly unfair to label every man the same and after the "Me too movement" it is even more difficult as man to function properly.
U33B - Your posts above contain a lot of misinformation about how laws around sexual assault and harassment work which seem to be copy/pasted from various internet myths - this means its difficult to believe the specific personal scenarios you've set which already sound far-fetched or have important details omitted - the police wouldn't arrest or charge a simple witness to a crime.
"I wanted to know why women can get away with their crimes."
No more so that people can get away crimes because there's a high evidential bar of beyond reasonable doubt to (mostly) ensure the innocent are not convicted - reducing that bar massively increases the likelyhood of unsafe convictions. See Genessis's post above.
"Any signs of attraction can be deemed harassment"
No, this is absolutely not true - harassing someone can be deemed harassment. What "signs of attraction" do you think the law now deems as harassment?
"I mean why are the western countries not allowing men to be men"
Can you be a little clearer about what you mean here? As it stands it sounds like you're suggesting men should be allowed to harass women.
"and after the "Me too movement" it is even more difficult as man to function properly"
Again - can you be a little clearer about what you mean here? As above it sounds like you're suggesting harassment of women is some kind of inbuilt male right?
Original post by U33B
I appreciate what you are saying however there is no difference between false accusations and lying. I am not saying women don`t get harassed or assaulted, what I am saying is that as a man a person is guilty until proven innocent. In fact, they are guilty even after being proven innocent. Did you hear about the lady who falsely accused a few men of rape, and they went to court, she made all of it up and still one of the guys house got his windows broken and was labelled. I appreciate you explaining the legal side of courts however this is not what I am asking for. I wanted to know why women can get away with their crimes. Nowadays any signs of attraction can be deemed harassment. I mean why are the western countries not allowing men to be men. I get that there are men who are abusers, but it is highly unfair to label every man the same and after the "Me too movement" it is even more difficult as man to function properly.
You mean this case (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/13/barrow-men-falsely-accused-of-tell-court-they-tried-to-kill-themselves), the one I referred to in my previous post? The false accuser was convicted and sent to jail for eight and a half years. In what world is that her "getting away with it"?
Original post by U33B
I appreciate what you are saying however there is no difference between false accusations and lying. I am not saying women don`t get harassed or assaulted, what I am saying is that as a man a person is guilty until proven innocent. In fact, they are guilty even after being proven innocent. Did you hear about the lady who falsely accused a few men of rape, and they went to court, she made all of it up and still one of the guys house got his windows broken and was labelled. I appreciate you explaining the legal side of courts however this is not what I am asking for. I wanted to know why women can get away with their crimes. Nowadays any signs of attraction can be deemed harassment. I mean why are the western countries not allowing men to be men. I get that there are men who are abusers, but it is highly unfair to label every man the same and after the "Me too movement" it is even more difficult as man to function properly.
you have a typo in your first sentence or something got lost in translation, cuz i said false accusations is the act of deliberately lying. i didn’t say there’s a difference between the two; they are one and the same.
false accusations is creating a malicious story to sabotage one’s colleague, for instance; the accuser knows they are lying and, if proven, can be disciplined. see link below for false accusations at work:
‘If the evidence suggests the accuser did believe and understand the allegations to be true, this would not be grounds for disciplinary action against them.
‘Where the evidence is clear that the allegations were deliberately made by the accuser and known by them to be untrue, then appropriate action under the disciplinary policy should be taken.’
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/false-accusations-at-work/
what i did say earlier is not having enough evidence =/= lying or false accusations and it does not mean the accuser is ‘proven wrong’ if they lose their case.
for example:
joey grabs sally's ass during shift at poundland. sally complains to her manager, who then asks her for evidence. sally doesn't have any cuz there was no one around to see it and there's no cctv.
does that mean joey didn't grab sally's ass and she's lying? no. just means she can't prove it. manager can't discipline her fairly for not having enough evidence tho; to discipline her fairly would require proving she deliberately lied about the ass grabbing; see link above.
i point this out because it's not uncommon to assume someone is lying if they can't prove their claim. but really, do you think those 95% of crimes reported to the police that do not result in charges are all liars? i hope not. many of them are reported by men!
your op asks - 'what law or rules you would change' - then goes on to ask about prevention, sentencing and the sex offenders register so i was explaining my position on law and rules. you don't want to discuss actual law and legal rules tho, right? if that’s the case i don't know how to answer your question 'why women can get away with their crimes', not without discussing law, the legal system or legal theory anyway.
you want to discuss social rules, not law, amirite?
you say ‘nowadays any signs of attraction can be deemed harassment’ - not legally it can’t so you're in the clear! bet you and most others don’t even know the legal definitions and even if you did know where to find it, wouldn’t fully understand it.
even if actions could meet the legal definitions of harassment, how often are charges brought? mentioned it earlier and it’s pretty close to zero percent.
still, the average person has higher expectations of social behaviour that law does not provide protection for. criminal law only punishes the absolute worst offenders cuz of human rights and public interest reasons (happy to expand on), but people in general have higher standards of basic respect; perhaps that’s why even if someone isn't found criminally guilty, the public may still not see this person as ‘innocent’. dyk Bill Cosby? perhaps in your view man is innocent since he’s not in prison, but seems reasonable to me for members of the public to not trust him with a drink.
are you from a non-western country with different social expectations, perhaps women aren't as vocal about harassment or get prosecuted more? why keep asking about 'western' countries?
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