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Sexual behaviours judged throughout time.

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By the way, society has become pretty much totally open about sex now. Pretending we've been repressed is so 60s.
shamrock92
There are effects of the act that "consent" doesn't account for. If I go and consent to watching degrading porn, that affects my conception of sex and affects future relationships I might have, how I perceive women etc. So there are negative effects outside of the "circle of consent" that haven't been considered.

Anything can have negative consequences that we don't account for consensually so why only argue about porn? TV has many negative effects that we never meant but does that make it 'bad'?

EDIT: I have yet to meet anyone whose perception of women has been affected by porn. The usual negative effects by porn are how it chances perceptions of the human body rather than treatment of other genders, but this effect is also echoed by nude adverts, etc and is not limited to porn. Although porn is mainly responsible for how some insecure people feel about their private areas.

Culture and religion are usually to blame for degrading perceptions of women.
shamrock92
By the way, society has become pretty much totally open about sex now. Pretending we've been repressed is so 60s.

Not completely, but I agree with you in general. We are becoming more open, although things like BDSM are still considered negative.
Attitudes really have changed recently for a number of reasons.
First, the decline of religion. Second, contraception. Third, the emancipation of women. All have created a more sexually liberal environment.

Whilst we are now liberal with regards to actual sex, the way that people talk about it and consider it hasn't really changed. The stereotypical roles of men (will sleep with anyone they can) and women (passive) haven't changed. Just look at all the H&R threads about girls who like boys but absolutely refuse to tell them, and want people to tell them the chances of the boy asking them out).

Interestingly, check this thread. http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=875575
I find it amazing how many people there are judging others based on the number of times they have sex, like its some kind of pokemon style badge-collecting exercise.

shamrock92
There are effects of the act that "consent" doesn't account for. If I go and consent to watching degrading porn, that affects my conception of sex and affects future relationships I might have, how I perceive women etc. So there are negative effects outside of the "circle of consent" that haven't been considered.

That's a leap of reasoning, at least if you are implying that the "negative effects" are significant. Its a bit like saying someone who watches action movies is going to become violent. Maybe, but realistically people know that real-life isn't quite like what is portrayed in a porn/action movie, and the effects of watching such porn/action movies are negligible.
jacketpotato
That's a leap of reasoning, at least if you are implying that the "negative effects" are significant. Its a bit like saying someone who watches action movies is going to become violent. Maybe, but realistically people know that real-life isn't quite like what is portrayed in a porn/action movie, and the effects of watching such porn/action movies are negligible.


I don't think that's a good analogy. (Essentially) everybody who watches horror films knows that hacking someone's head off and eating their brains isn't acceptable, as it contravenes moral standards. But not everyone who watches certain sexual acts knows they're purely meant to be confined to the world of fantasy or are meant to take place purely within the realms of consent and respect. There isn't the same stigma attached to degrading sexual practice as there is murder and torture. Thus, porn has a greater capacity to be misused.
shamrock92
I don't think that's a good analogy. (Essentially) everybody who watches horror films knows that hacking someone's head off and eating their brains isn't acceptable, as it contravenes moral standards. But not everyone who watches certain sexual acts knows they're purely meant to be confined to the world of fantasy or are meant to take place purely within the realms of consent and respect. There isn't the same stigma attached to degrading sexual practice as there is murder and torture. Thus, porn has a greater capacity to be misused.

I'm not sure thats quite true - certainly, current social attitudes to movies reflect disgust and high age ratings at sexual content, but a comfiness with excessive violence. Its interesting to contrast this with the French approach; whereby they are much more willing to license films with a heavy sexual content and to show sexual content on TV (when I was in Paris, the hotel TV was like a free porn box!), but are much more critical of violence.

That said, I agree that there will be some influence from aggressive porn, but I struggle to diffentiate this from the same way in which there is probably some influence from TV and movies towards desensitising society regarding violence. There will always be a small minority who are adversely affected by watching violence/degrading porn, but most people treat it for what it is, and wouldn't dream of applying degrading sexual practice to relationships.
Reply 26
grape:)
That's a really interesting point actually, maybe the positive womans rights movement also effected womans self expression in this way???

I've heard before that feminism is the main reason why prostitution is seen as bad. Nowadays christianity seems to be against it but in the middle ages the catholic church found it a good idea (mainly because it reduced masturbation).
Reply 27
cottonmouth
It is, pretty much in totality, because of religion, which galvanised masses to act and behave in a certain way. In ancient Greece, they were pre- Christianity. That hits, and suddenly you are a whore if you sleep around, are a sinner if you have same-sex relationships, etc etc etc.

People should realise, when you call a girl a slag, you are backwards because you haven't shaken off old religious shackles that try to dictate the proper rules of behaviour to this day, despite bearing little relevance ot the modern world.

In the middle ages the western world was ruled by the catholic church, who promoted prostitution (as it was seen as better than masturbation).
Reply 28
Before the pill and the condom were widely available, how did people have recreational sex? They clearly didn't all have monthly abortions, or just have 30 children.
And don't just say "they didn't have recreational sex", because thats patently not going to be the case.

Answers on a postcard.
Reply 29
DD2
I've heard before that feminism is the main reason why prostitution is seen as bad. Nowadays christianity seems to be against it but in the middle ages the catholic church found it a good idea (mainly because it reduced masturbation).


this kinda thing is exactly my point, hypocrisy that has developed over time, i mean it used to be acceptable.
Reply 30
py0alb
Before the pill and the condom were widely available, how did people have recreational sex? They clearly didn't all have monthly abortions, or just have 30 children.
And don't just say "they didn't have recreational sex", because thats patently not going to be the case.

Answers on a postcard.


You do know that the likelihood of getting pregnant off a single session is quite small, right?
Reply 31
grape:)
this kinda thing is exactly my point, hypocrisy that has developed over time, i mean it used to be acceptable.

I agree and blame feminism :biggrin:
Reply 32
Azer
You do know that the likelihood of getting pregnant off a single session is quite small, right?

And they used to have sex either with pulling out before coming or while the girl was on her period :wink:
Reply 33
DD2
And they used to have sex either with pulling out before coming or while the girl was on her period :wink:


Yeah. :smile:
Reply 34
Darkened Angel
If they liked that sort of sex is it still bad?


The things like double anal, deepthroating, multiple facials and double penetration were probably bad examples to use. A better example would be the casting style porn you find a lot of where the plot is:

1) Find dumb whore
2) Convince her that they'll give her a modelling contract if she lets them stick it in her pooper
3) Run out without paying her

Do you honestly think you could find any woman without serious mental issues who would think that erotic?

If it was men being humiliated would you call that bad?


Yes, if there was a plot of say, a guy being forced to do 'gay for pay' because of financial concerns and being unable to find other work and then having a bunch of other guys stick their cocks in his mouth and such, I'd consider that degrading and offensive.

If other women enjoyed watching porn with women being humiliated because they were into that sort of thing would you consider that bad?


If a woman got turned on by the gay for pay thing above, I would consider that bad.

Why judge others sexual desires when it is entirely consensual?


If you look at bondage networks like kink.com (they own hogtied, whippedass, sexandsubmission, tsseduction, and others) you will quickly find that although yes, it's all BDSM, it's incredibly consensual. Safewords or other methods are always employed. Many shoots are cancelled because one of the models didn't feel safe, and in some cases shoots have been cancelled because they were worried the models would hold back from using safewords as it was in a competition setting.

Take a look at Paul Little (max hardcore) or the Meat Members network, as well as myriad others and it's a different story entirely. They try to give the most solid possible impression that it's nonconsensual or borderline nonconsensual. Paul Little possibly crossed the line into actually being rapey according to allegations from some models. Yeah, all that double anal face fcucking stuff is all well and good when it's done like a BDSM shoot with it being as consensual as possible, but when it's made to look as rape like as possible it's just not good.
kultist
The things like double anal, deepthroating, multiple facials and double penetration were probably bad examples to use. A better example would be the casting style porn you find a lot of where the plot is:

1) Find dumb whore
2) Convince her that they'll give her a modelling contract if she lets them stick it in her pooper
3) Run out without paying her

Do you honestly think you could find any woman without serious mental issues who would think that erotic?

Ah, in that case I would agree with you.

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