What is traditional British culture, and does it exist?

The problem is that a lot of people see British culture as a sort of default culture. They then measure a unique culture by how different it is to what they find normal, so British culture seems non-existent to them. This is, of course, a ridiculous way of doing things.

A the most basic level, culture is the way we live our lives. It is reflected in our language, behaviour, customs and festivals. I had a German exchange student over recently, and he was infuriated by how needlessly polite everyone was over here, for instance. Also our food, drink, sport and even how we payed for things in the pub was often different. These are all examples of how the way we live each day is different to even another northern European country, so of course our culture exists. Our traditional culture are just aspects which haven't changed much in the last hundred/thousand years or so.

I'm fairly certain our culture has changed fairly massively since the 19th Century, never mind the 13th.

You misunderstood the point I was trying to make (which is rather my fault, I think I put it across fairly badly, but never mind).

I fully acknowledge that our culture has changed massively over even a short period of time, I was just trying to say that much of our 'traditional' culture is merely aspects which have changed little.

I was certainly not denying that our culture has changed a fair bit since the middle ages.

SKY3 - BNP wives is on. You can tell the stance the journalist took. Not a very subjective documentary.

Traditional British culture is an amalgamation of those standards, ideals and ways of life which have been defined by a consistent trend across the last 1000-2000 years - and those things which can be defined as exclusively 'British' (i.e. fish and chips, local pub, Union Flag etc.). It's ridiculous, however, to claim that current notions of diversity and multiculturalism are traditionally British concepts. They're not. People who claim they are base it on this fantastical, nonsense point of British "tolerance" (which is simply a liberal copout to seemingly rationalise the fact that multiculturalism is failing, and is detrimental to British society and culture). I just don't understand it. There are barely any cases where you could say Britain has been more 'tolerant' than any other nation. The obvious fact that the older generation these days are generally xenophobic simply demonstrates that 'British tolerance' is a freakish, fallacious notion. Britain ruled a quarter of the Earth's surface - imposing stringent controls on, and frequently repressing, its subjects. Where was this so-called 'tolerance' when Protestants and Catholics were at each other's throats, burning each other at the stake for two centuries? Where was this 'tolerance' during the Boer War, with implementation of the first concentration camps? I'm actually finding it difficult to think of any occasion where the British population have been 'universally tolerant'. Think of the booings of Ardiles and Villa during the Falklands War. Think of the cynicism towards the Irish during The Troubles. Think of the sustained Francophobia that's essentially characterised British culture for a thousand years. If there's anything which characterises traditional British culture it is not 'tolerance'.

I think you're missing the extent to which British culture is essentially informed by multiculturalism, and that many of our habits, be they in dress, musical taste, or cuisine, are informed by the very multicultural aspects of the UK you claim are "failing".

I agree that tolerence isn't an especially British characteristic, but that's more because tolerance of other cultures is a recent phenomena, made a necessity by globalisation more than anything.

My point behind twenty-first multiculturalism failing considers the point that Trevor Phillips has made over and over again that instead of social integration we're left with inner city ghettoes and a refusal on the part of ethnic minorities to adapt to British values

Again, I don't know if you could define "British values" and find a set that every indigeneous Brit agrees to. And whilst a lack of inter-community dialogue is a problem, I don't personally believe people have a duty to associate with others if they do not wish, provided they abide by the law and harm no-one else.

As I said above. I believe traditional British cultural values are those things which have been shown consistently throughout the past 1000-2000 years (e.g. monarchy), as well as those things which can be considered distinctly British (e.g. local pub). It's obvious that every indigenous Brit wouldn't conform to them, but that's not necessarily the point. The point is about 'traditional British culture'. Traditions are sometimes forgotten and simply not used any more - usually due to the fear of them seeming anachronistic or barbaric (e.g. beheading). There's no doubt that they still exist on a general basis however. People are still, generally, supportive of monarchy. People are generally supportive of democracy. The main point also is that although Britain is now, on the whole, a secular nation, we adhere to Christian cultural values. It's difficult, therefore, for those who have not been affected by Christian cultural values to adapt. Some may argue that this lack of responsibility on the part of other cultures to integrate means they should not be here in the first place. Because, let's face it. When you have miles of particular towns occupied by a particular group - of alien cultural values - that becomes colonisation, not a mere case of migration.

Don't pull that one on me, please, it's patronising. The Church is as much shaped by culture as by anything else, and the current manifestation of Christianity is more a domesticated form which has arisen as a response to enlightenment values of individual liberty and equality, which aren't actually Christian values in the slightest, given that Christianity was used as an excuse for hierarchy and virtual slavery for the best part of a millenium in the UK. Incidentally, most "Christian values" were borrowed off the Greek and Roman societies in which they arose, further confirming my later point that cultures are fluid.

I think you over define people by culture, and you fail to acknowledge the extent to which cultures can alter as a result of contact with others. Christianity became more moderate as a result of its exposure to enlightenment ideas, and I believe that contact that cross cultural dialogue will, over time, result in other cultures becoming more moderate. Defining them narrowly by their culture and denying that they will ever integrate is the surest way to ensure that they never will. You underestimate people's capacity for change and the extent to which cultures are not homogenous and largely malleable.

Christianity was once an 'alien' religion to Britain of course, not to mention a religion from the middle-east (like, um, Islam). Christianity today is a movement where ethnic mixing is pretty usual, even prominent in some denominations, and the major institutions of Christianity in the UK today, the Church of England and the Catholic Church, both strongly reject the racial ideology of the BNP.

AFAIK fish and chip shops date from the 1860s and today they have to compete with some very popular takeaway alternatives; pizza, indian, chinese, kebabs being the obvious ones. Culture changes, 'traditional' cultural practices have origins and endings (are easily subject to change) and their origins are often pretty recent.