Why is it fair for people with money to get a better education than me?
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Original post by House MD
Even though the costs of such a thing would be unfeasible. You can't argue with the facts 
rofl
Original post by Miracle Day
"He added: "We do need to ensure that our school system as a whole promotes fairness and mobility, that it heals the rift in opportunities. We are committed to narrowing the gap in our school system – state and private – and ensuring that all children are given the chance to rise. The way to do that is to make the state education system better – to level up – and ensure that anyone can get ahead."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/may/20/rift-private-state-school-grades
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/may/20/rift-private-state-school-grades
Yes, not by abolishing private schools. Improve the standards of state education instead.
Original post by politics_student
This.
To an extent, I am under the belief that people can do well wherever they are, just so long as they put the right amount of work in and have the work-ethic.
To an extent, I am under the belief that people can do well wherever they are, just so long as they put the right amount of work in and have the work-ethic.
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government."
Original post by Miracle Day
"Pupils at private schools are more than three times as likely to get AAB in the key A level subjects that help candidates gain access to top universities as those in state schools, according to the first analysis of its kind released by the government."
Do you have a link for that, please?
I attend a state school, I'm on target for AAB and quite a few of my peers are as well. There are some predicted Cs and Ds, but they didn't really put the work in.
Original post by politics_student
Do you have a link for that, please?
I attend a state school, I'm on target for AAB and quite a few of my peers are as well. There are some predicted Cs and Ds, but they didn't really put the work in.
I attend a state school, I'm on target for AAB and quite a few of my peers are as well. There are some predicted Cs and Ds, but they didn't really put the work in.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/may/20/rift-private-state-school-grades
Original post by Drewski
Why is it fair for someone with more money to have better clothes than me?
People always respond like this, but they're completely different issues. One is inequality; the other perpetuates inequality.
A bad worker always blames their tools, private school kids are pushed harder by their parents and teachers because of the price of their education, that's probably why?
Original post by theonefrombrum
I think that it's time that people became more responsible for their own learning and didn't have such a reliance on the education system to teach them everything that they need to know. Sure, they can and should introduce you to what you need to know but if you really want to acheive great grades, it's up to you to spend the time revising and learning the stuff in your own time and not just depending on your teachers to miraculously instill in you all the knowledge that you'll need to get an A*. I know people who went to state schools (school i went to) and did amazingly well because their dedication to doing the best that they could was matched with a realisation that they had to put the hours in themselves.
Really, what can private schools do that teachers in state schools can't or don't? Sing the maths to you? Read the English poems to you in a funny voice and dance as you contemplate the effect of a sonnet on the reader? No, the knowledge to be given is the same and while the methods of teaching may vary, the style adopted by private school teachers wont be so advanced and great as to negate that used by teachers in state schools.
Moral of that was - rely on yourself and you'll do well, rely on others and it's more dependent on their merits and motivation to want to help you
Really, what can private schools do that teachers in state schools can't or don't? Sing the maths to you? Read the English poems to you in a funny voice and dance as you contemplate the effect of a sonnet on the reader? No, the knowledge to be given is the same and while the methods of teaching may vary, the style adopted by private school teachers wont be so advanced and great as to negate that used by teachers in state schools.
Moral of that was - rely on yourself and you'll do well, rely on others and it's more dependent on their merits and motivation to want to help you
Surely that's the point of the education system?
Original post by sclez1
People always respond like this, but they're completely different issues. One is inequality; the other perpetuates inequality.
And..
A society where everyone had the same clothes = Communism
A society where everyone has the same oppertunities in education = Democracy
Original post by Miracle Day
And..
A society where everyone had the same clothes = Communism
A society where everyone has the same oppertunities in education = Democracy
A society where everyone had the same clothes = Communism
A society where everyone has the same oppertunities in education = Democracy
Yes, I agree. I'm not campaigning for complete equality, I'm campaigning for complete equality of opportunity, which in my opinion is a more serious issue.
Original post by Miracle Day
It also could harm it. For example perhaps I'll miss out on a place at Oxbridge because 50% go to 8% of the population.
I understand the idea that education is competitive, and I can understand that it's an unfair system. However, life is unfair, and I think it would be even more unfair from a personal liberty point of view to tell people that they can't pay for what they can afford.
I also think it's possibly the strongest argument for bringing back the grammar school system.
Original post by tufc
I understand the idea that education is competitive, and I can understand that it's an unfair system. However, life is unfair, and I think it would be even more unfair from a personal liberty point of view to tell people that they can't pay for what they can afford.
I also think it's possibly the strongest argument for bringing back the grammar school system.
I also think it's possibly the strongest argument for bringing back the grammar school system.
But there'd no longer be an option to pay for it.
It'd be like when they got rid of the Wonka chocolate bars.. I can afford them but they no longer exist so I can't pay for them..
Original post by emanuela15
From what I remember of state school, it might be class size? When I was in my local state school, we had around 20+ people in a class. In my private school now, we have around 10. Also, not meaning to point fingers, but the teachers in my state school weren't very supportive of the slackers in lessons - extra help was pretty much out of the question
And why should teachers support kids who are slacking and drag everyone down to their level?
This isn't about unfairness, it's about kids who don't want to learn selfishly taking attention away from children who do want to learn. Extra help should be in place to help bring them up to scratch with others of course, but booster sessions should not be compulsory since teachers are overworked as it is already.
Is it fair that some children have more loving parents than other children?
Original post by Classical Liberal
Is it fair that some children have more loving parents than other children?
Drivel ^
Private school kids are pushed harder to achieve good grades as not only are their parents paying for it, but the school is legally entitled to eject anyone without the same strict grounds require for a state school expulsion. Oxbridge's learning atmosphere is also far more similar to that of private schools than state schools.
Honestly, OP just went to a bad state school. At mine, the majority of people got at least one A at A Level, with over 30% getting at least one A* (I got AABB which was about average).
The bigger question would be is how some state comprehensives are allowed to surpass others so well. Usually you'll find that these schools are in more affluent areas, and the housing prices themselves are pushed up by "in such-and-such catchment area" whilst areas around poorer performing schools are less expensive and therefore less well-off people live around them and send their children there.
Technically, all schools involuntarily take into account the income and social class of their students just by being in particular areas. You just don't have to formally give and money to the school.
Honestly, OP just went to a bad state school. At mine, the majority of people got at least one A at A Level, with over 30% getting at least one A* (I got AABB which was about average).
The bigger question would be is how some state comprehensives are allowed to surpass others so well. Usually you'll find that these schools are in more affluent areas, and the housing prices themselves are pushed up by "in such-and-such catchment area" whilst areas around poorer performing schools are less expensive and therefore less well-off people live around them and send their children there.
Technically, all schools involuntarily take into account the income and social class of their students just by being in particular areas. You just don't have to formally give and money to the school.
Original post by placeboeffect
Surely that's the point of the education system?
That's what's been mandated by Governments and people in general but there has to be a time where people don't just assume that because it's written down that something must be, it then should. So yeah the education system should be teaching you everything, in theory, but i think there should be responsibility taken on behalf of individuals who accept that the education system can't do everything and so there's work they'll need to do too.
It's an excuse really. 'Our schools were supposed to teach us everything, they never, therefore i failed'. To me that isn't acceptable and the onus is on parents and the students themselves to do the work and try hard.
Original post by Miracle Day
But there'd no longer be an option to pay for it.
It'd be like when they got rid of the Wonka chocolate bars.. I can afford them but they no longer exist so I can't pay for them..
It'd be like when they got rid of the Wonka chocolate bars.. I can afford them but they no longer exist so I can't pay for them..
The difference is of state intervention. I don't know why they got rid of Wonka bars; but I assume it was the decision of the company who made them, and it's their product so they have the right to do it.
Whereas banning private schools would be government intervention interfering with something that they have no stake nor ownership in.
There's a very big difference!
Original post by tufc
The difference is of state intervention. I don't know why they got rid of Wonka bars; but I assume it was the decision of the company who made them, and it's their product so they have the right to do it.
Whereas banning private schools would be government intervention interfering with something that they have no stake nor ownership in.
There's a very big difference!
Whereas banning private schools would be government intervention interfering with something that they have no stake nor ownership in.
There's a very big difference!
I think the inequality is too great.. I mean the difference in average grades are huge..
I'll just compare it to a company that owned slavery, would it be right for the Government to close this down?
Regardless of whether or not they should be shut down, I do feel a little cheated and they can't ignore this.
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