Immigration - Was Enoch Powell Right?

Anyway, I don't really see a problem. Are you saying only the British are allowed to complain/protest against the countries culture/laws? It's not like we are all in harmony about what needs to be done to make Britain better. We live in a free society, immigrants generally do abide by the laws but they don't have to support them. They have every right to attempt to change them.

The difference between when British complain and immigrants complain is that immigrants came to the UK of their free will. They didn't have to come to a country which they were opposed to in terms of laws/culture, but they did it anyway. Those born here however, were born here, so that is different since they didn't choose to be born here but the immigrants chose to move here. Its like going to a Youtube video purely to troll and dislike the video...why bother watching that video if you hate it?

Hypothetically, if I emmigrated out to say, France or Spain, then I would be expected to speak the language and not to disrespect their people and laws. Any country has those expectations. In my personal opinion, its because the UK has the free NHS and benefits whereas the US doesn't have free healthcare and doesn't give out benefits to just anyone.

I understand the benefits of immigration (more workers, and the things they did bring us) but at the same time, Blair screwed up when he opened the door, making immigration go up ten-fold. The only thing I actually blame immigration for is the increased rate of crime. You can't even go to some areas without fearing your life and I doubt it was like that before immigration.

I'm not so afraid of the people who come here but the ideas they bring.

Well people here already have very dangerous ideologies, e.g. BNP and Nation Front (back in the day).

This is not only applicable to "immigrants".

Of course but it would be unwise to bring more.

You can also argue that the internet brings as many, if not more of these unappealing ideals to our country than immigrants themselves, though censoring the internet would be frowned upon by most advocates of freedom of expression.

Before you edited your post, you mentioned Brixton as one of those areas so you're probably referring to blacks. Do you realize the majority of those blacks aren't first-generation immigrants? As I said, there was mass-immigration in the 50s/60s but that's because Britain needed it. There's not much mass-immigration taking place today. Plus, look at Glasgow, whose to blame there?

There has to be a balance, we can't let everyone in but we should allow some refugees, some professionals and some people who just want to emigrate to come here: after all many Brits do the last two! However, we need to accept that our country is relatively small and already densely populated, which already requires a lot of effort into redeveloping and reorganising communities and infrastructure. I think an annual cap of around 25-50k is fair enough, and when coupled with government sponsored aid programs/by developing the third world, more people will stay in their home country anyway: they needn't flee from persecution nor try to improve their quality of life through coming to Britain- which ironically is down to exploitation by us 'westerners' and is ultimately why there exists such a gulf in worldwide living standards. Indeed, poverty in our own country is also due to exploitation, low social mobility and unequal distribution of various items; people who live with this everyday should not scapegoat immigrants as it just closes the mind to any thought or rebellion, thus perpetuating the cycle of easy manipulation/subjugation. Some people, especially real life UKIPers, would do well to remember that!

Of course but it would be unwise to bring more.

Before I start, I should make clear that I do consider myself a nationalist. Oxford Dictionary defines nationalism as "patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts". Patriotic is defined as "having or expressing devotion to and vigorous support for one’s country". I also go on record to state that I am NOT racist, nor do I support racism...this is why I ignored parts of his speech refering to the 'black man' and the 'white man'. That is racist and goes against my ideals. I do, however, believe that immigration has to be stopped and potentially turn into emmigration.

To me, an immigrant was one who was born outside of this country. Nothing complicated, just simply being born outside of the country. Whether you are black, white, asian, christian, atheist, muslim or jewish, it doesn't matter.

Enoch Powell stated: "We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the annual inflow of some 50,000 dependants, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre."

This caught my attention, namely the bolded part. If you look around Britain, you will notice that it has a massive amount of immigrants. Now you don't need GCSE Science to know that if there is a correlation between the number of immigrants living in a borough and the amount of crime in those areas.

This is happening now, its called benefits. Anyone can claim benefits, whether they are immigrants or not, but it feels more catered to immigrants. UK has slowly lost its power to the point that it is TOO politically correct for its own good. Saying anything bad against the minority would be deemed racist or against their religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psZBaJU_Cvo - This is the first example of how immigration has failed us. They protest our laws, our policing yet they chose to move from their country to here. Therefore, they are grateful they were even let into the country. If they aren't immigrants...then I've lost faith in UK at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xRmKTD96po - Do you see this stupidity? And they wonder why Americans hate them...Americans are utterly right to believe that. While the clip does say these extremists are a minority of their religion, how long will it be before THAT becomes the standard? 5 Years? 10? 20? It is insane and should be stopped.

When asked what the UK's 'indiginous group' would face, Powell states: "For reasons which they could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in their own country."

Immigrants feels like they can come into the country and ignore the laws and culture of our country and replace it with their own.

They protest our laws and ideals yet why on earth would an immigrant come to a country only to dispise it.

If they don't like the country, if they don't want to go by its laws and culture then why are they still here?

However, multicultralism has failed the UK and has weakened it economically, socially and politically. Therefore, immigration has weakened the country.

Tl;dr - Immigration should be stopped completely (Yeah, I went there...no immigration), immigrants should respect our laws and ideals or else they should leave whether they want to or not (its like watching a Youtube video PURELY to dislike it and leave hateful comments).

All in all, do you believe that Enoch Powell was right about immigration during this speech? Do you believe he was completely wrong? Hopefully we can actually have a logical, unbias debate.

I'd have to disagree with living standards in poor countries being due to exploitation by westerners. What do you think living standards in Africa would be like if we Europeans had never interacted with it? No science, no medicine, no engineering...

Most of what you mention there are because of what we (or the Romans) picked up from the middle east. With hindsight, the technological improvements in our country were the only good thing to come from our earlier raiding of other nations during wars like the Crusades.

I'm not disagreeing with the rest of what you say, just pointing out that 'western' doesn't quite cover the basis of our technological society.