Victim Blaming Or Taking Personal Responsibility To Minimise Risk?
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Funny how the OP never actually mentioned rape. Maybe he's referring to something else? like this maybe:
Original post by The Socktor
Funny how the OP never actually mentioned rape. Maybe he's referring to something else? like this maybe:
Or maybe this? http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
I can see where this is going. The difference is, women are not objects, and most rapes are
1) committed by someone the victim knows and not the stranger in the alleyway. So what she wears isn't anything to do with it
2) are about power and domination and not sex, again, what she wears isn't anything to do with it/ It's more about putting power over people, which is why those with learning difficulties or mental illnesses are the victims of violent crime more often than other groups
So your whole thread is pointless, and yes, it is victim blaming
1) committed by someone the victim knows and not the stranger in the alleyway. So what she wears isn't anything to do with it
2) are about power and domination and not sex, again, what she wears isn't anything to do with it/ It's more about putting power over people, which is why those with learning difficulties or mental illnesses are the victims of violent crime more often than other groups
So your whole thread is pointless, and yes, it is victim blaming
Number 1 is factually correct, but number 2 is a bunch of bull**** which has no basis in any sort of hard evidence based research, straight outta tumblr tbh
Its a question of what is and what isn't a reasonable thing to expect people to do.
It is reasonable to expect people to lock their car, because it takes 1 second to press the button and does not otherwise inconvenience them in any way.
Is is not reasonable to expect women to never get drunk or to wear whatever clothing they like, as this is quite clearly repressing their personal freedom.
So, the analogy is ultimately a flawed one because it does not recognise the different degrees of inconvenience.
It is reasonable to expect people to lock their car, because it takes 1 second to press the button and does not otherwise inconvenience them in any way.
Is is not reasonable to expect women to never get drunk or to wear whatever clothing they like, as this is quite clearly repressing their personal freedom.
So, the analogy is ultimately a flawed one because it does not recognise the different degrees of inconvenience.
Original post by yo radical one
Number 1 is factually correct, but number 2 is a bunch of bull**** which has no basis in any sort of hard evidence based research, straight outta tumblr tbh
No it's factually correct
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2013/08/29/rape-and-power/
https://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/29/rape-about-power-not-sex
None of these things demonstrate that it's about power rather than sexual lust
I mean the Guardian is the middle class White libtard version of the Daily Mail
Original post by yo radical one
None of these things demonstrate that it's about power rather than sexual lust
I mean the Guardian is the middle class White libtard version of the Daily Mail
I mean the Guardian is the middle class White libtard version of the Daily Mail
Yes they do, and insulting the newspaper doesn't detract from what I'm saying
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
Yes they do, and insulting the newspaper doesn't detract from what I'm saying
No they don't, they're just journalists making unfounded statements, might sound weird for me to say, but they have no more authority on the matter than you yourself do
My point was more how easily people discount anything the DM says purely because it was the DM which said it, but don't give the Guardian the same treatment, even though strip away the political slant, they're actually pretty similar
(edited 10 years ago)
Look how biased these sources are
''feministe''
''mnsu'' - one university in the world, probably written by their sociology/whatever students
''theguardian'' - do I even need to say anything more?
How can you claim something is factually correct after picking out 3 biased sources? Surely not all rape is about power, some of it is actually just for sex?
Ever thought that?
Original post by yo radical one
No they don't, they're just journalists making unfounded statements, might sound weird for me to say, but they have no more authority on the matter than you yourself do
My point was more how easily people discount anything the DM says purely because it was the DM which said it, but don't give the Guardian the same treatment, even though strip away the political slant, they're actually pretty similar
My point was more how easily people discount anything the DM says purely because it was the DM which said it, but don't give the Guardian the same treatment, even though strip away the political slant, they're actually pretty similar
How about the BBC ?http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4078677.stm
Original post by yo radical one
No they don't, they're just journalists making unfounded statements, might sound weird for me to say, but they have no more authority on the matter than you yourself do
My point was more how easily people discount anything the DM says purely because it was the DM which said it, but don't give the Guardian the same treatment, even though strip away the political slant, they're actually pretty similar
My point was more how easily people discount anything the DM says purely because it was the DM which said it, but don't give the Guardian the same treatment, even though strip away the political slant, they're actually pretty similar
I love it whe you post evidence on TSR yet some people still argue with it.
Original post by Robbie242
Look how biased these sources are
''feministe''
''mnsu'' - one university in the world, probably written by their sociology/whatever students
''theguardian'' - do I even need to say anything more?
How can you claim something is factually correct after picking out 3 biased sources? Surely not all rape is about power, some of it is actually just for sex?
Ever thought that?
''feministe''
''mnsu'' - one university in the world, probably written by their sociology/whatever students
''theguardian'' - do I even need to say anything more?
How can you claim something is factually correct after picking out 3 biased sources? Surely not all rape is about power, some of it is actually just for sex?
Ever thought that?
I never said ALL rape was about power, purely the vast majority of it. I can find more sources if you want, but you won't be satisfied with anything I provide, because you've already made your mind up
Basically, my views on rape:
It is 100% the perpetrator's fault: I don't care whether the victim was hardly wearing any clothes, it is the perpetrator's fault for choosing to that person. I can understand how clothes may influence the perpetrator's actions, but at the end of the day: it is the perpetrator who made a conscious decision to rape that person and so, they should be blamed. However, that being said: of course, to minimise risk of rape, please please don't dress indecently and attract unnecessary attention to yourself. I'm not saying this because I'm suggesting clothes have a major influence on rape, I'm saying this because its almost like, if you can minimise the risk, you might as well.
Notice there is no gender assigned to either of the roles, in my above paragraph
It is 100% the perpetrator's fault: I don't care whether the victim was hardly wearing any clothes, it is the perpetrator's fault for choosing to that person. I can understand how clothes may influence the perpetrator's actions, but at the end of the day: it is the perpetrator who made a conscious decision to rape that person and so, they should be blamed. However, that being said: of course, to minimise risk of rape, please please don't dress indecently and attract unnecessary attention to yourself. I'm not saying this because I'm suggesting clothes have a major influence on rape, I'm saying this because its almost like, if you can minimise the risk, you might as well.
Notice there is no gender assigned to either of the roles, in my above paragraph
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
I never said ALL rape was about power, purely the vast majority of it. I can find more sources if you want, but you won't be satisfied with anything I provide, because you've already made your mind up
I never said ALL rape was about power, purely the vast majority of it. I can find more sources if you want, but you won't be satisfied with anything I provide, because you've already made your mind up
I hear that all the time in sociological circles, but it just doesn't add up to me.
Maybe in prison it is true, with the whole hierarchy thing, but for the majority of male-female rape cases out in the real world, the cause of most rapes is simply that the guy wants to sex with the girl, she doesn't, and he decides, "ah **** it, I'm gonna hold you down and do it anyway" because he's psychopath incapable of human empathy.
Original post by anarchism101
To add to this, the often-quoted analogy of leaving your car unlocked is a flawed one. The function of a car lock is not to 'discourage' car theft, but to physically prevent it.
By contrast, short of a chastity belt a woman cannot wear anything that will physically prevent a rapist.
By contrast, short of a chastity belt a woman cannot wear anything that will physically prevent a rapist.
Just to clarify this; car locks are a physical hindrance to car theft, but they (quite obviously) do not always prevent it. I agree that what clothing someone wears isn't strictly analogous to that, but things like pepper spray, bigger muscles, rape alarms, certainly seem to be.
As for the original question; I don't think it is inherently victim blaming to teach precautionary measures to avoid rape (or any crime, for that matter). However, people do blame the victims, or else express sentiments to that effect, far too often and I'm unaware of any studies that have linked the clothes someone is wearing to an increased likelihood of being raped.
Original post by yo radical one
Number 1 is factually correct, but number 2 is a bunch of bull**** which has no basis in any sort of hard evidence based research, straight outta tumblr tbh
Original post by yo radical one
None of these things demonstrate that it's about power rather than sexual lust
I mean the Guardian is the middle class White libtard version of the Daily Mail
I mean the Guardian is the middle class White libtard version of the Daily Mail
Excuse me, she also quoted a blog.
It's a fact that blogs are more factually accurate than any form of statistical analysis too. And I can prove it.
www.mypretentiousblog.com/Ispoutmyideasaboutbull****feminism
Original post by Tyrion_Lannister
I love it whe you post evidence on TSR yet some people still argue with it.
I'm sorry Tyrion but posting opinion pieces obviously doesn't count as evidence. I'm not actually disputing what you're saying, I've heard it many times and I'm not sure whether I believe it to be true or not, but I've never seen ACTUAL evidence. Your feministe link says "Fact" and claims studies have proved it, but references nothing.
Anyway, as a wider point, what does laying the blame actually achieve? I don't think anyone would disagree that rape is a despicable act and that its prevention is something we need to strive for. Searching for and endlessly debating blame just detracts from the real aim.
(edited 10 years ago)
The only example that works as an analogy for rape is the first one as the others don't involve the restriction of liberty that happens when you apply it to people. A person can't lock themselves up without considerable effort - even doing less than this, like wearing clothes that hide your body and avoiding going out on your own are restrictions of liberty. We can't avoid taking our bodies to 'dodgy areas' if we need to go to certain places like you can avoid taking your car, or showing your money off. That you think women should treat their bodies like you would treat a possession is victim blaming.
Original post by Reue
A better comparison would be if someone got burgled because they left their windows unlocked and open on the ground floor.
Is it their fault? No.
Could they have minimised the chances of it happening? Yes.
Is it their fault? No.
Could they have minimised the chances of it happening? Yes.
THIS.
Original post by yo radical one
Number 1 is factually correct, but number 2 is a bunch of bull**** which has no basis in any sort of hard evidence based research, straight outta tumblr tbh
I've always felt #2 was a weird answer for why people rape. You never hear of an old lady getting raped, the vast majority of rape on women occur when they still look good.
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