Will humans get past consumerism?
Will humans get past consumerism?
Or is it something we're essentially "born with". I can't help but notice all the waste around Christmas time i.e all the gifts people didn't really want.
Or is it something we're essentially "born with". I can't help but notice all the waste around Christmas time i.e all the gifts people didn't really want.
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Original post by Bill_Gates
Will humans get past consumerism?
Or is it something we're essentially "born with". I can't help but notice all the waste around Christmas time i.e all the gifts people didn't really want.
Or is it something we're essentially "born with". I can't help but notice all the waste around Christmas time i.e all the gifts people didn't really want.
Some humans have already got past consumerism, but in general, it's proving to be a fairly potent virus.
We currently live in a capitalist system which perpetuates more and more mindless consumption. The goal of corporations, of course, is to maximise profit and market share, so citizens have to be turned into mindless consumers of luxury goods that they do not want.
The self-worth of an alarmingly high number of people is predicated upon how many material possessions they have. We're not born with it: propaganda and the public relations and advertising industries have always been closely linked: the Nazis, particularly Goebbels, based a lot of their propaganda on the methods used by the public relations industry in the US during the capitalist boom of the 1920s.
It goes without saying that consumerism is helping to trash the environment, increase the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few and erode democracy. Instead of using our spare resources to make the world a better place (by, for example, giving to cost-effective charities), we buy coffee that we do not need from Starbucks: if everybody stopped buying bottled water or coffee at shopping malls, the money saved would save hundreds of lives.
This model of overconsumption also applies to the meat industry, in which tens of billions of sentient beings around the world are processed as quickly as possible through death factories - without regard for their welfare - to satisfy our insatiable demand for animal products.
If consumers are to become citizens again, and shopping malls to become communities, our current economic and governmental system will have to go. Currently, as long as people are watching the football and have the latest iPhone or fashionable clothing item, they're "happy", but also ignorant, so they're not going to be a threat to established power.
Is it really happiness, though? It's more like the story of Sisyphus, who was condemned to pushing a boulder up a mountain for eternity, and just as he reached the peak of the mountain, the boulder would fall back down. Instead, we work long hours in order to get the money to buy consumer goods, but just as we think we've reached a stable point of happiness, we realise we "want" something else. So, we have to work some more, to earn some more money, to buy the latest iPhone (after all, the last one was already a year old!), but we're never truly happy.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by viddy9
Some humans have already got past consumerism, but in general, it's proving to be a fairly potent virus.
We currently live in a capitalist system which perpetuates more and more mindless consumption. The goal of corporations, of course, is to maximise profit and market share, so citizens have to be turned into mindless consumers of luxury goods that they do not want.
The self-worth of an alarmingly high number of people is predicated upon how many material possessions they have. Propaganda and the public relations and advertising industries have always been closely linked: the Nazis, particularly Goebbels, based a lot of their propaganda on the methods used by the public relations industry in the US during the capitalist boom of the 1920s.
It goes without saying that consumerism is helping to trash the environment, increase the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few and erode democracy. Instead of using our spare resources to make the world a better place (by, for example, giving to cost-effective charities), we buy coffee that we do not need from Starbucks: if everybody stopped buying bottled water or coffee at shopping malls, the money saved would save hundreds of lives.
This model of overconsumption also applies to the meat industry, in which tens of billions of sentient beings around the world are processed as quickly as possible through death factories - without regard for their welfare - to satisfy our insatiable demand for animal products.
If consumers are to become citizens again, and shopping malls to become communities, our current economic and governmental system will have to go. Currently, as long as people are watching the football and have the latest iPhone or fashionable clothing item, they're "happy", but also ignorant, so they're not going to be a threat to established power.
Is it really happiness, though? It's more like the story of Sisyphus, who was condemned to pushing a boulder up a mountain for eternity, and just as he reached the peak of the mountain, the boulder would fall back down. Instead, we work long hours in order to get the money to buy consumer goods, but just as we think we've reached a stable point of happiness, we realise we "want" something else. So, we have to work some more, to earn some more money, to buy the latest iPhone (after all, the last one was already a year old!), but we're never truly happy.
We currently live in a capitalist system which perpetuates more and more mindless consumption. The goal of corporations, of course, is to maximise profit and market share, so citizens have to be turned into mindless consumers of luxury goods that they do not want.
The self-worth of an alarmingly high number of people is predicated upon how many material possessions they have. Propaganda and the public relations and advertising industries have always been closely linked: the Nazis, particularly Goebbels, based a lot of their propaganda on the methods used by the public relations industry in the US during the capitalist boom of the 1920s.
It goes without saying that consumerism is helping to trash the environment, increase the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few and erode democracy. Instead of using our spare resources to make the world a better place (by, for example, giving to cost-effective charities), we buy coffee that we do not need from Starbucks: if everybody stopped buying bottled water or coffee at shopping malls, the money saved would save hundreds of lives.
This model of overconsumption also applies to the meat industry, in which tens of billions of sentient beings around the world are processed as quickly as possible through death factories - without regard for their welfare - to satisfy our insatiable demand for animal products.
If consumers are to become citizens again, and shopping malls to become communities, our current economic and governmental system will have to go. Currently, as long as people are watching the football and have the latest iPhone or fashionable clothing item, they're "happy", but also ignorant, so they're not going to be a threat to established power.
Is it really happiness, though? It's more like the story of Sisyphus, who was condemned to pushing a boulder up a mountain for eternity, and just as he reached the peak of the mountain, the boulder would fall back down. Instead, we work long hours in order to get the money to buy consumer goods, but just as we think we've reached a stable point of happiness, we realise we "want" something else. So, we have to work some more, to earn some more money, to buy the latest iPhone (after all, the last one was already a year old!), but we're never truly happy.
What does that mean?
Original post by Sisuphos
What does that mean?
People are no longer citizens in their respective countries anymore - they're consumers, and treated as such. We no longer have communities either: the places of mass gatherings are, in this day and age, shopping centres. Unless our governments and the corporations they serve are dismantled and replaced with something better, this will continue.
Consumerism is a form of gluttony. We will get over it at the same time we start to challenge obesity. Given our ever expanding waistlines, that is not going to happen anytime soon.
Original post by viddy9
Some humans have already got past consumerism, but in general, it's proving to be a fairly potent virus.
We currently live in a capitalist system which perpetuates more and more mindless consumption. The goal of corporations, of course, is to maximise profit and market share, so citizens have to be turned into mindless consumers of luxury goods that they do not want.
The self-worth of an alarmingly high number of people is predicated upon how many material possessions they have. We're not born with it: propaganda and the public relations and advertising industries have always been closely linked: the Nazis, particularly Goebbels, based a lot of their propaganda on the methods used by the public relations industry in the US during the capitalist boom of the 1920s.
It goes without saying that consumerism is helping to trash the environment, increase the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few and erode democracy. Instead of using our spare resources to make the world a better place (by, for example, giving to cost-effective charities), we buy coffee that we do not need from Starbucks: if everybody stopped buying bottled water or coffee at shopping malls, the money saved would save hundreds of lives.
This model of overconsumption also applies to the meat industry, in which tens of billions of sentient beings around the world are processed as quickly as possible through death factories - without regard for their welfare - to satisfy our insatiable demand for animal products.
If consumers are to become citizens again, and shopping malls to become communities, our current economic and governmental system will have to go. Currently, as long as people are watching the football and have the latest iPhone or fashionable clothing item, they're "happy", but also ignorant, so they're not going to be a threat to established power.
Is it really happiness, though? It's more like the story of Sisyphus, who was condemned to pushing a boulder up a mountain for eternity, and just as he reached the peak of the mountain, the boulder would fall back down. Instead, we work long hours in order to get the money to buy consumer goods, but just as we think we've reached a stable point of happiness, we realise we "want" something else. So, we have to work some more, to earn some more money, to buy the latest iPhone (after all, the last one was already a year old!), but we're never truly happy.
We currently live in a capitalist system which perpetuates more and more mindless consumption. The goal of corporations, of course, is to maximise profit and market share, so citizens have to be turned into mindless consumers of luxury goods that they do not want.
The self-worth of an alarmingly high number of people is predicated upon how many material possessions they have. We're not born with it: propaganda and the public relations and advertising industries have always been closely linked: the Nazis, particularly Goebbels, based a lot of their propaganda on the methods used by the public relations industry in the US during the capitalist boom of the 1920s.
It goes without saying that consumerism is helping to trash the environment, increase the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few and erode democracy. Instead of using our spare resources to make the world a better place (by, for example, giving to cost-effective charities), we buy coffee that we do not need from Starbucks: if everybody stopped buying bottled water or coffee at shopping malls, the money saved would save hundreds of lives.
This model of overconsumption also applies to the meat industry, in which tens of billions of sentient beings around the world are processed as quickly as possible through death factories - without regard for their welfare - to satisfy our insatiable demand for animal products.
If consumers are to become citizens again, and shopping malls to become communities, our current economic and governmental system will have to go. Currently, as long as people are watching the football and have the latest iPhone or fashionable clothing item, they're "happy", but also ignorant, so they're not going to be a threat to established power.
Is it really happiness, though? It's more like the story of Sisyphus, who was condemned to pushing a boulder up a mountain for eternity, and just as he reached the peak of the mountain, the boulder would fall back down. Instead, we work long hours in order to get the money to buy consumer goods, but just as we think we've reached a stable point of happiness, we realise we "want" something else. So, we have to work some more, to earn some more money, to buy the latest iPhone (after all, the last one was already a year old!), but we're never truly happy.
Great post! But don't you think this particular system is actually working? i don't think it's working for the long term due to the constraints we face but surely for the short run it's had a lot of positive results?
why would we want to get rid of consumerism? we're consumers
Original post by viddy9
We currently live in a capitalist system which perpetuates more and more mindless consumption. The goal of corporations, of course, is to maximise profit and market share, so citizens have to be turned into mindless consumers of luxury goods that they do not want.
There is no system that forces you to consume though... You have the choice to consume. Even if there is a lot of propaganda, it is inevitably still a choice made by an individual. Also the only reason that modern day goods and services exist (such as your Starbucks example) is because there is a demand for it, people want it = profitability = products.
Original post by viddy9
The self-worth of an alarmingly high number of people is predicated upon how many material possessions they have.
Assertion, no evidence.
Original post by viddy9
It goes without saying that consumerism is helping to trash the environment, increase the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few and erode democracy. Instead of using our spare resources to make the world a better place (by, for example, giving to cost-effective charities), we buy coffee that we do not need from Starbucks: if everybody stopped buying bottled water or coffee at shopping malls, the money saved would save hundreds of lives.
I agree, there are multiple externalities due to production and consumption. But is this really reason enough to scrap out our entire economic and political system rather than passing a few new laws or enacting a reform?
Original post by viddy9
If consumers are to become citizens again, and shopping malls to become communities, our current economic and governmental system will have to go.
How are consumers not citizens? What are you talking about here?
Original post by viddy9
Is it really happiness, though? It's more like the story of Sisyphus, who was condemned to pushing a boulder up a mountain for eternity, and just as he reached the peak of the mountain, the boulder would fall back down. Instead, we work long hours in order to get the money to buy consumer goods, but just as we think we've reached a stable point of happiness, we realise we "want" something else. So, we have to work some more, to earn some more money, to buy the latest iPhone (after all, the last one was already a year old!), but we're never truly happy.
It depends on what you define as happy. I'm sure there are plenty of people completely satisfied with working to consume. Again, you are making the assumption that people have to consume at all, no one is forcing you to go buy the latest iphone. Peer pressure and advertising might play a role, but the final decision is still a choice. You do not get punished for not consuming.
To combat the use of advertising we could force companies to disclose all effects of consumption clearly on the packaging, like they currently do with cigarettes in most countries.
Original post by viddy9
People are no longer citizens in their respective countries anymore - they're consumers, and treated as such. We no longer have communities either: the places of mass gatherings are, in this day and age, shopping centres. Unless our governments and the corporations they serve are dismantled and replaced with something better, this will continue.
I don't understand the dichotomy. You can be both a citizen and a consumer. Tbh, "consumer" is not really an identity, it's not like there are people who are not consumers. By necessity, we're all consumers. We're not all citizens (I assume you're not a Bangladeshi citizen for example), it's a particular identity and it means different things for different people. I also assume, consumers are going to exist in any economic and political system, whatever its nature.
What does being a citizen mean to you?
It's really difficult to discuss corporations as they are, in their present form, highly complex legal entities with all sorts of rights and obligations (and highly constrained by state laws and regulations). They're quite specific things that I wouldn't even know how to describe.
But any organisation which is owned by private individuals, pooling their capital together, hiring labour or even being entirely self-employed and producing for profit is what I'd loosely call a capitalist corporation. The differences between that and say a socialist or a communist corporation would be that capital would not be privately owned and production would presumably be carried out for something else other than profit (e.g. use). Nothing new or particularly unproblematic about this construct.
Also, you seem to have a romantic view of communities and don't seem to factor in their highly tyrannical, conformist and conservative character. Local communities are often not very pleasant for large minorities of people (not only racial minorities but religious and cultural as well - e.g. gays, atheists, christians, goths, punks -- you name it)
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Bill_Gates
Will humans get past consumerism?
Or is it something we're essentially "born with". I can't help but notice all the waste around Christmas time i.e all the gifts people didn't really want.
Or is it something we're essentially "born with". I can't help but notice all the waste around Christmas time i.e all the gifts people didn't really want.
Consumerism is only increasing.
Today in the UK more people worship at "The Church of Apple", than people at actual churches.
Original post by sleepysnooze
why would we want to get rid of consumerism? we're consumers
They're talking specifically about excessive consumption - consuming more than you need (e.g. do you really need an iphone 6, when you bought the iphone 5, just a year and a half ago)
Original post by Quantex
Consumerism is a form of gluttony. We will get over it at the same time we start to challenge obesity. Given our ever expanding waistlines, that is not going to happen anytime soon.
Obesity can be explained through addiction some what. Some of the substances they put in food now can be habit forming. Also in the UK we have the NHS so creates a moral hazard since people don't have to take personal responsibility.
Original post by Zweihander
Consumerism is only increasing.
Today in the UK more people worship at "The Church of Apple", than people at actual churches.
Today in the UK more people worship at "The Church of Apple", than people at actual churches.
True well it has to otherwise the system starts to fall apart. It's terrible news when people spend less.
Original post by BobbyFlay
There is no system that forces you to consume though... You have the choice to consume. Even if there is a lot of propaganda, it is inevitably still a choice made by an individual. Also the only reason that modern day goods and services exist (such as your Starbucks example) is because there is a demand for it, people want it = profitability = products.
.
.
Yes there is and capitalism is that system and its spreading around the world. Destroying nature and natural ways of living to be replaced with this corrupt, destructive, selfish way of living.
Original post by viddy9
Is it really happiness, though? It's more like the story of Sisyphus, who was condemned to pushing a boulder up a mountain for eternity, and just as he reached the peak of the mountain, the boulder would fall back down. Instead, we work long hours in order to get the money to buy consumer goods, but just as we think we've reached a stable point of happiness, we realise we "want" something else. So, we have to work some more, to earn some more money, to buy the latest iPhone (after all, the last one was already a year old!), but we're never truly happy.
Is it really happiness, though? It's more like the story of Sisyphus, who was condemned to pushing a boulder up a mountain for eternity, and just as he reached the peak of the mountain, the boulder would fall back down. Instead, we work long hours in order to get the money to buy consumer goods, but just as we think we've reached a stable point of happiness, we realise we "want" something else. So, we have to work some more, to earn some more money, to buy the latest iPhone (after all, the last one was already a year old!), but we're never truly happy.
The fist step to happiness is accepting happiness is generally fleeting no matter what. You wont magically be happy by hiding yourself entirely from consumerist economics like some kind of starving monk. Nor will you be happy working yourself to death just to get the next big thing on one massive consumerist treadmill.
“every virtue is a mean between two extremes, each of which is a vice.”
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Mancini
Yes there is and capitalism is that system and its spreading around the world. Destroying nature and natural ways of living to be replaced with this corrupt, destructive, selfish way of living.
You clearly do not understand what capitalism is, get off the red pill sites dude...
Capitalism is an economic system, in which the means of production are privately owned. There are multiple forms of capitalism, (welfare capitalism and lassiez faire to name a few) but some of the main characteristics are: private property, wage labour competitive markets and capital accumulation.
The system is by no means perfect, but without out it we would not have the same degree of consumer choice and innovation that we benefit from today.
Scandinavia is a social democracy and uses capitalism, and they are also some of the most environmentally friendly countries in the world.
Original post by BobbyFlay
You clearly do not understand what capitalism is, get off the red pill sites dude...
Capitalism is an economic system, in which the means of production are privately owned. There are multiple forms of capitalism, (welfare capitalism and lassiez faire to name a few) but some of the main characteristics are: private property, wage labour competitive markets and capital accumulation.
The system is by no means perfect, but without out it we would not have the same degree of consumer choice and innovation that we benefit from today.
Scandinavia is a social democracy and uses capitalism, and they are also some of the most environmentally friendly countries in the world.
Capitalism is an economic system, in which the means of production are privately owned. There are multiple forms of capitalism, (welfare capitalism and lassiez faire to name a few) but some of the main characteristics are: private property, wage labour competitive markets and capital accumulation.
The system is by no means perfect, but without out it we would not have the same degree of consumer choice and innovation that we benefit from today.
Scandinavia is a social democracy and uses capitalism, and they are also some of the most environmentally friendly countries in the world.
Capitalism may give us some good and sure it may be the best system we can think of now to live under but as humans we can do better. There is also bad in capitalism, unlike you I don't simply choose to ignore it.
You can also engage in conversation without stupid insults, try it sometime dude.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Mancini
Capitalism may give us some good and sure it may be the best system we can think of now to live under but as humans we can do better. There is also bad in capitalism, unlike you I don't simply choose to ignore it.
Can you read?
Did I say it was a perfect system?
Where have i ignored the bad in capitalism? Stop spewing random bs.
There might be a better system than capitalism, but what is wrong with reforming capitalism itself? Why toss out the most effective system we currently have? Seriously, get off the red pill sites...
Original post by BobbyFlay
The system is by no means perfect, but without out it we would not have the same degree of consumer choice and innovation that we benefit from today.Scandinavia is a social democracy and uses capitalism, and they are also some of the most environmentally friendly countries in the world.
(edited 8 years ago)
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