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How to show that x = y ?? (2,3 marks)

I have done part i) And have the correct answer of
Pos a
x^2=y^2+4

Pos b

(x+0.95)^2 = (y+1.05)^2 + 4

Edit (thanks guys) :smile:

I don't know how to do the LAST part, and would be grateful, if you could go through it :smile:

Thank you! :biggrin:

Question bellow.

question c.png
(edited 11 years ago)

Scroll to see replies

Reply 1
I'm a bit confused by your question. Which part are you asking about?

Could you maybe ask your question again in a different way?
Original post by blueray
I have done part i) And have the correct answer of
Pos a
x^2=y^2+4

Pos b

(x+0.95)^2 = (y+1.05)^2 + 4

I was wondering why would the real answer not be x= and y=
Why is it like the above answer, if the question says write down 2 equations in X an d Y?

I also don't know how to do the second part, and would be grateful, if you could go through it :smile:

Thank you! :biggrin:

Question bellow.

question c.png


If I understand correctly; you're asking why it's okay to leave those equations in that form?

If so; it's simply that they didn't ask you to make y or x the subject (subject means make it x= ... or y= ... ); so as long as you have some equation relating x and y you've done what they've asked.

For the hence show; multiply the brackets in the second equation out and see if that helps you see what to do.
Reply 3
OK I think I now understand your question

It says, write down two equations "in x and y". An equation "in x and y" doesn't have to look like y=... or x=..., it just has to be an equation that includes the variables x and y.

If the question said, "write an equation with x/y as the subject" or "write an equation for x/y in terms of y/x" then you would be required to write equations of the form x/y=...
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by hassi94
If I understand correctly; you're asking why it's okay to leave those equations in that form?

If so; it's simply that they didn't ask you to make y or x the subject (subject means make it x= ... or y= ... ); so as long as you have some equation relating x and y you've done what they've asked.

For the hence show; multiply the brackets in the second equation out and see if that helps you see what to do.



Original post by notnek
OK I think I now understand your question

It says, write down two equations "in x and y". An equation "in x and y" doesn't have to look like y=... or x=..., it just has to be an equation that includes the variables x and y.

If the question said, "write an equation with x/y as the subject" or "write an equation for x/y in terms of y/x" then you would be required to write equations of the form x/y=...


Oh ok cheers guys :biggrin: Can you help me do the next part?

Yes I multiplied it out, but the sums wont add up to get that answer :frown:
Could you start me off and i'll do the rest? Or go through it? THanks.
For part ii) expand your brackets for pos B to get x2+1.9x+0.9025=y2+2.1y+1.1025+4x^2+1.9x+0.9025=y^2+2.1y+1.1025+4
Re arrange to x2y2+1.9x2.1y0.2=4x^2-y^2+1.9x-2.1y-0.2=4

For pos a, we can re arrange to have x2y2=4x^2-y^2=4

So we can now solve these simultaneously: x2y2+1.9x2.1y0.2=x2y2x^2-y^2+1.9x-2.1y-0.2=x^2-y^2
Re arrange to get your 2.1y=1.9x0.22.1y=1.9x-0.2
Reply 6
The first part is like that because it means that the equation must have both x and y in it. If you really want to change x^2 = y^2 + 4 into y = sqrt(x^2-4) for example, you could, but it is somewhat pointless.

For part (ii), try solving your two equations simultaneously. I recommend expanding your Pos b equation and then subbing in (y^2+4) for x^2. Things will just cancel out.

Part (iii) is just a continuation of this - you need to square both sides and then sub in (x^2 - 4) for y^2. Tbh, part (ii) is actually somewhat redundant and just a stepping stone I guess to help you get to part (iii); you could get to the quadratic in one go.
Reply 7
Original post by CharlieBoardman
For part ii) expand your brackets for pos B to get x2+1.9x+0.9025=y2+2.1y+1.1025+4x^2+1.9x+0.9025=y^2+2.1y+1.1025+4
Re arrange to x2y2+1.9x2.1y0.2=4x^2-y^2+1.9x-2.1y-0.2=4

For pos a, we can re arrange to have x2y2=4x^2-y^2=4

So we can now solve these simultaneously: x2y2+1.9x2.1y0.2=x2y2x^2-y^2+1.9x-2.1y-0.2=x^2-y^2
Re arrange to get your 2.1y=1.9x0.22.1y=1.9x-0.2


Oh ok thanks for that! :biggrin: I was just struggling to find what to sub :biggrin: I get it now! I'll remember to look out to sub numbers with letters :h:
Reply 8
Original post by blueray
I have done part i) And have the correct answer of
Pos a
x^2=y^2+4

Pos b

(x+0.95)^2 = (y+1.05)^2 + 4

Edit (thanks guys) :smile:

I don't know how to do the second part, and would be grateful, if you could go through it :smile:

Thank you! :biggrin:

Question bellow.

question c.png


You have to continue to expand your answer for B and then combine A and B into a single equation so that you cancel out the squared terms. Then rearrange that equation so it equals y in terms of x and substitute into equation A or B. Good luck. I'm not going to go through exactly how it's done.
Original post by blueray
Oh ok thanks for that! :biggrin: I was just struggling to find what to sub :biggrin: I get it now! I'll remember to look out to sub numbers with letters :h:

Ha no worries :smile:

What are the answers on the mark scheme for iii)? I just want to see if I'm heading in the right direction.
Reply 10
Original post by notnek
a



Original post by hassi94
y.




Original post by Aeonstorm


Part (iii) is just a continuation of this - you need to square both sides and then sub in (x^2 - 4) for y^2. Tbh, part (ii) is actually somewhat redundant and just a stepping stone I guess to help you get to part (iii); you could get to the quadratic in one go.


I was wondering, why would you have to square both sides? Then sub?? Please explain why you said this. :smile:
Thanks!

Original post by CharlieBoardman
Ha no worries :smile:

What are the answers on the mark scheme for iii)? I just want to see if I'm heading in the right direction.


Can all of the above show me how to get there? :smile:

Final answer
x=4.25
y= 3.75
Original post by blueray
I was wondering, why would you have to square both sides? Then sub?? Please explain why you said this. :smile:
Thanks!



Can all of the above show me how to get there? :smile:

Final answer
x=4.25
y= 3.75


Use the quadratic formula to get x. Then sub x back into your original equation and you have got y.
Reply 12
When i said square both sides, i meant squaring both sides of 2.1y = 1.9x - 0.2, so that you have 4.41y^2 which you can replace with 4.41(x^2-4). Alternatively, you can just solve to get y = (1.9x-0.2)/2.1, and then square this and sub into x^2 = y^2 + 4. Essentially its the same thing either way.
Reply 13
Original post by GreenLantern1
Use the quadratic formula to get x. Then sub x back into your original equation and you have got y.


Oh so I have to use quadratic equation on this?

x^2 +1.9x+0.9025

Because the question is asking me to form a quad equation in x ??? :smile:
Reply 14
Original post by Aeonstorm
When i said square both sides, i meant squaring both sides of 2.1y = 1.9x - 0.2, so that you have 4.41y^2 which you can replace with 4.41(x^2-4). Alternatively, you can just solve to get y = (1.9x-0.2)/2.1, and then square this and sub into x^2 = y^2 + 4. Essentially its the same thing either way.


If you said this, then why would green say the bellow??
And you also haven't said WHY you square both sides? What in the question or what do you think in your head, that tells you to "square both sides"?

Once I get this then I will understand it fully :smile:

Original post by GreenLantern1
Use the quadratic formula to get x. Then sub x back into your original equation and you have got y.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 15
Original post by blueray
Oh so I have to use quadratic equation on this?

x^2 +1.9x+0.9025

Because the question is asking me to form a quad equation in x ??? :smile:


You do want a quadratic equation, but thats not it. Just take y = (1.9x - 0.2)/2.1 and substitute into x^2 = y^2 + 4
Reply 16
Original post by blueray
If you said this, then why would green say the bellow??
And you also haven't said WHY you square both sides? What in the question or what do you think in your head, that tells you to "square both sides"?

Once I get this then I will understand it fully :smile:


Because green has already gotten x, before he tells you how to get y. I'm talking about how to get the quadratic in x in the firs tplace.

As for you you need to square, look at my above post. If y = (1.9x - 0.2)/2.1, and you want to sub it into x^2 = y^2 + 4, you have to square both sides of y = (1.9x - 0.2)/2.1 to get y^2 = (1.9x - 0.2)^2/4.41, before you can sub it in.

If you just push that through, you should get a quadratic of 0.8x^2 + 0.76x - 17.68 = 0
Then just use the quadratic formula to get x, which is 4.25
Then subs x = 4.25 into x^2 = y^2 + 4 to get y
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by blueray
I was wondering, why would you have to square both sides? Then sub?? Please explain why you said this. :smile:
Thanks!

Can all of the above show me how to get there? :smile:

Final answer
x=4.25
y= 3.75

So you square both sides of 2.1y=1.9x-0.2.
This gives you 4.41y2=3.61x20.76x+0.04 4.41y^2=3.61x^2-0.76x+0.04
We know that y2=x24y^2=x^2-4 so we sub that in to get:
4.41x217.64=3.61x20.76x+0.044.41x^2-17.64=3.61x^2-0.76x+0.04
Rearrange to get: 0.8x2+0.76x17.68=00.8x^2+0.76x-17.68=0
Use quadratic formula for your values of x. Sub your values of x into one of the equations to get your values of y :smile:
Original post by blueray
If you said this, then why would green say the bellow??
And you also haven't said WHY you square both sides? What in the question or what do you think in your head, that tells you to "square both sides"?

Once I get this then I will understand it fully :smile:

You needed to square it so that it could be turned into a quadratic equation when you subbed in your y^2=x^2-4.

EDIT: The question doesn't tell you to square both sides, you just have to see that it has to be done, in order to turn in into a quadratic :smile:
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 19
Original post by CharlieBoardman
So you square both sides of 2.1y=1.9x-0.2.
This gives you 4.41y2=3.61x20.76x+0.04 4.41y^2=3.61x^2-0.76x+0.04
We know that y2=x24y^2=x^2-4 so we sub that in to get:
4.41x217.64=3.61x20.76x+0.044.41x^2-17.64=3.61x^2-0.76x+0.04
Rearrange to get: 0.8x2+0.76x17.68=00.8x^2+0.76x-17.68=0
Use quadratic formula for your values of x. Sub your values of x into one of the equations to get your values of y :smile:


Cheers :biggrin: I get it now!

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